A Walk in the Physical with Christian Sundberg

Okay, hey, well, I want to welcome everybody to another Consciousness Cafe event. Our focus is in trying to help everybody that has an interest in metaphysical subjects appreciate the breadth of who they are, to learn more, to be able to ask questions, to be advocates for change, help other people who are maybe getting started on their path. We all come from different places, different understandings, and it's through sharing with each other that we expand our awareness of all that we are and how reality works.

So tonight, we have a very interesting guest. His name is Christian Sundberg. I've had the pleasure of peripherally being aware of his background. He's a very popular speaker. His message—I won't go into delving and exploring what it is at this point—but it's a fantastic concept. His experience helps open the door to a broader understanding of things. So, I want to welcome Christian. With that, Christian, can you get started and share your story?

Thank you, Jim. I appreciate it. Thank you, everybody. It's wonderful to be here. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim last year in DC, and I still remember Jim's energy. So, thank you for being there, Jim. It's meaningful.

So, what I'm going to try to share is beyond language. Okay? So, words don't work. We'll do our best, but words are symbols. They're forms that are specific to our local world. So, I'll just use the words we have, but I have to disclaim that first because there's just no language for what we are. Like, there's no good, fully accurate language. So, I just have to say that first.

So, I won't share my entire experience for the sake of time. Jim did ask for me to touch on a few specific topics, but I'll just share at a high level. So, my body is 44 years old right now. At the age of 30, I took up a long-term meditation practice, and after a few months, began to have out-of-body experiences. I also had pre-birth memory return to me after maybe six or eight months or something. And I remember the incarnation process. I remember why I'm here, what I wanted to do with this life, and I can feel the veil on me right now. Like, I walk around every day aware of the presence of the veil. The veil just being what we call the limitations in consciousness space that we wear in order to have the physical experience of being human.

And so, I am very passionate about sharing what we really are to the best that we can because our true nature is love and peace and joy and freedom. That is what we really are. And we have come deep into this physical experience, and we've really kind of lost the forest for the trees. You know, we get really deep into the association with the human story, but that's not purpose. We're doing that for a reason, but even so, we've taken it pretty seriously.

And I am very passionate about just trying to remind others of who we really are because who we really are is absolutely wonderful, and there is nothing to fear. That's like Cliff Notes ending. There's nothing to fear, and love is the true power. Okay? So, I'll share briefly, and please do interrupt with questions. I do want this to be organic. I have a couple of points I wanted to touch on, but I did feel that I should leave space for organic discussion. I always like to try to meet people where they are.

So, you know, most people are interested in me to share my pre-birth experience, so I'll share some of that. I don't think that's the most important thing to talk about. I think what's most important is, like, what are we like for real, really underneath, underneath the physical, underneath the meat suit experience. You know, what are we really? But hopefully, the experience will help at least in part. Okay?

So, I know this sounds wild. Like, I'm a normal person as much as they come, I guess. I work a normal mainstream professional job, kind of thing. You know, I have a family. I'm a father, and I'm active in my community. I do all those things. So, I'm not—I know this sounds wild, but I remember before I had ever been physical, before I had had any physical incarnation experiences, coming across a being who had been physical and being very inspired, deeply, deeply inspired by the quality of this being's nature. His essence, like his quality of being, was so rich and so deep and so beautiful and so full of joy and power, and I was just so inspired by this being because, you know, I asked him, like, what could you possibly have done to be this? It's telepathic, and in those higher reality systems, we communicate by thought. There's no words necessary. We are all connected, and so we feel and know that connection, and we can share full exchanges of knowing and feeling instantaneously.

So, I could feel from him like what he was, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, are you really like that? What? How is it even possible that you are that full of joy and freedom and power?" And he shared with me that he had—well, he shared with me many things, but chief among them was he had lived a physical life in particular where he had a long-term pain, a health condition that he strove with—not against, but strove, worked with—for years in this one physical experience. And the way that he chose to meet it, the way that he processed it, allowed a certain refinement of his being. That's the only way I can describe it. It was so powerful, and I was like, "I want to do that. Like, I want to do that. I want to do that." And he said something to me of the effect of, like, "This is not negative," and it wasn't like it wasn't critical, but it was like, "Yeah, that's what they all say. You just don't know how hard it is. Like, obviously, you're just ignorant to it." And I was persistent. I said, "No, I mean it. I want to do that." And he said, "Well, go talk to your guides."

So, I won't go through all the detail, but I lived many times, and I had a preceding experience before this life where I had—so, okay, I'll just say that my primary intention for this life and the preceding life just before this one was to process a specific fear that had bested me in a previous experience. Like, in a previous experience, I went down the fear path very deeply, and fear gives rise to ego. And so, in that life, I was an egoic, damaging person. And so, I knew that that fear was something that—ah, the words are bad—like something that I had experienced. I don't want to say that I was that I am because fear itself isn't even real, but anyway, this certain area of experience that had bested me in the past.

So, they brought to me a preceding life that was a really good match to meet that fear and process it. And I remember accepting the veil for that life, which can only be described as a huge plummet in vibration in the body of one's being, down from being connected to everything and knowing everything and just being in total connectedness and bliss, down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower into like—and then lower, and then like when you feel like you get to the bottom, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. Like, that's how it felt vibrationally to come all the way down into the physical experience of this preceding life.

And I reacted in fear immediately. I was still in the womb. I had not—the body had not been born yet, and I reacted in fear, and I was like, "I'm not doing this. There's no freaking way. Like, this is so low vibration. I don't remember who I am. I lost everything. I am not doing this. Like, just no, no." So, I had this fear rise up, and I fought my way out. I smoked the veil. I pushed past it, and that caused that previous life to end prematurely. The body died, and I had a life review for that short life, and I could see how my fear had impacted the poor mother because I basically heaped grief upon her shoulders because she had a miscarriage of my body. And I could see how her grief affected hundreds of other people.

And so, I still wanted to meet this fear. Trying remains to—so, they brought me this life sometime later, and I reviewed this life in incredible detail—millions and millions of possibilities of what might unfold in this life potentially. And I could feel what it would be like to be me in as a human, as the character, as Christian, the character, you know. And I made certain requests to the life, and eventually, there was a time to accept it. And then I was in this waiting area for a while, and then this guide came to me and said, "Go now. Like, now's the time." And then I was in this room that I can only describe as like a technician shop or an auto shop or something like a tinker workshop, and there were these beings there who are very technical in nature, and they're very skilled at applying the veil to an individual.

Because the individual soul is so unique and rich in its qualities, and each given life—the biology, the circumstances, the energy of the species, the planet—like, it's all very complex, and they do this thing where they make it fit. They make it all jive. And I remember them asking me one last time, "Are you sure?" And I said, "Yes." And then once again, the same plummet and vibration down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower. And this time, I tried not to fight the veil because I didn't want to fail again. Not that it's a failure, but I didn't want to cause a premature ending again.

So, then I was in the womb for a while, and then after a while, I was like, "I'm not doing this. This is not happening. This is ridiculous. Like, a whole lifetime? It's no, no, no. I'm not doing that." So, once again, I began to summon my strength, my might, to fight my way out. And when I did that, I had the most holy moment of my experience here, and it's beyond language. It's very holy to me and beyond any description, but the source of all things—what we call God, that is the "I am" at the bedrock of all—came to me and expanded me back out, and I felt all of the universe within me and beyond. And I felt, including our sun, Earth's sun, I felt it within me, and it was churning with bliss. It was like a raging ball of bliss.

And God said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this." And I was like, "Oh, oh, okay, okay." So, then I stopped fighting because I knew that if I had—because I was fighting because I felt like I lost all that I am, and I was going to fight in fear to get that back, to claw that back. But in this experience, I was shown, "Oh, I know I didn't lose all that I am. Oh, okay." So, I stopped fighting, and I returned to being in the womb. And then I felt like I was there for a very long time, and then I remember being born. I remember the shock of the birth experience and having no idea what was going on but being super curious. And then, yeah, that's a super short version of the story.

At the age of 10 days old, my body almost died. I had a respiratory thing, and I turned blue, and they baptized me in the hospital. So, I still wonder if maybe part of my experience is associated with that somehow. But then, as I got older, I had certain memories from the pre-birth experience that I just assumed everybody knew, but nobody seemed to talk about. And I would cheat, like draw upon the flowchart memory, and basically try to look ahead and see what was going to happen. And that ability diminished as I aged. You know, by the age of five or six, I couldn't do that anymore. I wasn't allowed to cheat anymore. But I also had other assumptions that I assumed would be true here on Earth because of the way things work in higher reality systems.

Like, for instance, I assumed we would be able to feel each other's emotions here because that's very normal in every other system. That's not common here, and when we do, it's very muted usually because we are right now in this experience where we are experiencing a very deep state of separation. That is like the name of the game here is the separation, so we don't feel each other's emotions telepathically. And I also assumed that, just in our society, beings who were in positions of power or authority would be loving and wise because, in other systems, that's how it is. The more loving and wise you are, those beings are in positions of authority—it's a bad word because it's not like the way we think of authority—but positions of authority, basically. And like, just automatically, if you're in a position of authority, that means you're loving and wise. Like, why else would you be in a position of authority? You know what I mean?

So, I assumed that even as a young child. I remember thinking, "Oh, my teacher must be really loving, and the president of the United States must be like the most loving and wise person out of all of our huge country." You know? That's not how it works on Earth. I've since discovered, but anyway, so that memory left me completely by the age of around five or six. So, I had no awareness of that at all in my teens and 20s. And then, at the age of 30, when it came back, it was the most normal thing in the world. But see, I was already in a place in an awareness. I was already meditating and having out-of-body experiences, and so this was just like someone blew leaves off of the ground. It wasn't like a huge, the sky split epiphany or something. It was just, "Oh, that's like the most normal thing. You're not human. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay, this is weird being human. Okay, I get it." You know?

And then I didn't really talk about it too much, but I did share it a few times, and eventually, somebody said, "You really should share that. That's extraordinary." And I said, "It is?" Like, it didn't occur to me. It seems so normal, you know? And then, eventually, I shared it at around the age of 38, about six years ago. And in the meantime, in my mid-30s, I began to receive intuitive chunks of information downloads—you could say—that became my book. It's called "A Walk in the Physical." It took about six years to get it all down and to organize it in the intuitive way that it's organized because it's an atypically organized book. And I just—oh my gosh—I had this bone-level intuitive deep calling to get that book published. Like, I didn't even—if only one person ever saw it for one sentence, I just knew that I was so deeply compelled. I can't express the level of bone-level, like, "You must get this physical."

So, now that it is physical, I'm incredibly humbled and surprised at how it's been received and the number of people it's reached. And it's amazing. So, I'm absolutely humbled, and I'm so happy and overjoyed to be able to share in whatever way I can. You know, all of us are that. That's the important thing. It's not about me. All of us are that love, that spirit that is connected to all things, and we come with intentionality. So, if there's any questions, I'll stop, but there were two points I wanted to make that Jim asked me to comment on. So, I'll pause for a second, and if there's no questions, I'll comment on his two points.

I've got some questions. Sure, Bruce has got his hand raised. Why don't you start off, Bruce?

Hi, Bruce. Hi, Christian. Nice to meet you. I don't think we've met before. Yeah, two questions. I guess the first one is about something you said. Can you say more about when you said you're not human? What does that mean to you? Yeah. And the second one is a question I'll let you say something about that first, and then the second question is something I've struggled with for a long time, and I'd like your sure on.

Yeah, so I know it sounds crazy, but none of us are actually human. What we are—what you are—is you. Like, what I mean is, the you that feels like you to you is who you are now. You might think that that you that feels like you to you means human. It actually doesn't. It's your consciousness, your spirit itself, the knowing quality of the "I" that you are. That is the most familiar "I." So, you could say very simply, in dry terms, we are consciousness, and consciousness engages a set of forms that is sense data and thoughts primarily. Those are the two big categories of forms we experience here all the time. Sense data being sight, sound, touch, smell—all that good stuff. We see a body, we touch a body, we feel a body. Oh, look, a body. And then we think about the body. We apply meaning to the world. You know, we see distance, we interpret it. All these thoughts, all these ideas, that's all occurring within consciousness.

So, what happens is we lose ourselves into form association. That's the key. We become deeply associated into the form of, in this case, being human and having a brain and having a brain that limits how you can think and all that good stuff. Or we get associated with our beliefs or the story. You know, "I am so-and-so's friend. That's my identity now." Well, that's okay. That's valuable, actually. It's just that the form falls away. You know, like, as a very simple metaphor, like, where is the five-year-old you? The five-year-old body? Show me your five-year-old self. Well, it's gone completely. There's not a cell left from the five-year-old you, but you're still here. Well, it's like that, actually, too. When the body dies, it's actually not a big deal. The body is actually more like a very, very dense local constraint set, like a suit that we are wearing. And when the body dies, it just drops, and it's a seamless transition because you remain your consciousness before death and after death, and you're still you, except now, when you drop the body, you're much more you because you just dropped all these bunch of constraints that you're not.

So, anyway, I went down a bit of a tangent there. I don't know if that speaks to your question.

I think I need to think about it a little more. It might. Yeah, I know that's a big—yeah, I think it might even in a way answer my second question, and that's what I mean. I have to think about it a little more. So, for most of my life, I've been much more comfortable in what people call the spiritual world than I am comfortable in whatever this place is we are now. And so, my question is, where the hell are we now?

Okay, just two comments. First of all, when you said, "I need to think about it just a little," in case this helps later, nudge—I was a big thinker up until I realized that my human thinking meant almost nothing. Like, because the thinking is the thought form of the local system, so it's like staring into the video game and then trying to understand outside the game with the video game thoughts. Like, fortunately, we're already outside of the game, so actually, dropping thought—which meditation, of course, is the name of that practice—but it's more about alertness rather than thinking about it like a new activity of dropping thought. It's more like returning to full alertness. And when we do that, you ask, "Where are we?"

Okay, so I can only use a metaphor. Well, before I use the metaphor, so there is—I know this is going to sound really, really wonky, out there, strange—there is no such thing as distance. There's only the illusion of distance that is occurring because of the sense data we're receiving in consciousness that makes it look like there's all this space. In fact, consciousness is what you are, and it is connected to all other consciousness. Okay? So, metaphorically, a better way to probably more practical way to put that is we're like sitting in the movie theater looking, watching a movie right now. And when you sit in a movie theater and watch a movie, pretty soon, you don't think about the room you're in anymore because you got lost in the movie. It's exciting, it's stimulating, it's got action, there's like characters talking to each other, and it's provoking emotions and story and meaning and all that good stuff, right? That's kind of like what the human experience is like. We get really lost in this rich story that we're coming up with, but we're actually still in the theater. Like, there is no movie world, really. There's only a screen, and there's an image appearing on it. And in this case, the screen is your consciousness itself.

And there's information and thoughts, and when you let go of the sense information and the thoughts, it's like returning to awareness of being the person sitting in the movie theater. And all of a sudden, you go, "Oh, it's a movie." Not because you're trying—you don't like sit there and think, "I'm going to think harder and get out of the movie." No, it's by letting go of the movie, and all of a sudden, you realize, "I never left the theater. I've been sitting in the theater the whole time. Holy crap." You know? That is what the awakening process is like. So, where are we? We're not actually in the physical. We're just having—this is a virtual experience, you put it that way. The physical is a virtual experience. And so, to put it in crude, clunky terms, we're in heaven right now having the dream of Earth. It's a way to put it.

There's some astrophysicists that are saying this is all the hologram that we're experiencing now. It's a little hard to wrap your mind around because we're so focused on the physical reality that we're in, but it's interesting to see some of these theories emerging. Yeah, we try to understand from the perspective of the physical stuff that we learned locally, and then we run into these things called paradoxes because we've believed duality, whereas that which is real transcends it. It's not a fundamentally real thing. So, you're going to get goofy corners in thinking if you try to think only your way out of the box. Fortunately, your consciousness is already connected to the all-knowing, so you can know. It's just not—you're not going to sit down and read a book and like, "There's the answers." That's not how it works.

Which was the biggest challenge, by the way, in writing a book because there's no way to do it. So, it's about—so my book is actually about pointing back towards the "I" in the theater somehow and helping the reader hopefully find that one idea that will nudge them back towards the person that's in the theater.

Yeah, I'd like to go back to this being, this non-physical entity that you met. Yeah, I assume that there were a lot of non-physical entities that you've interacted with, and that this one just happened to be an experience that came along that captured your imagination in ways that other interactions didn't. Is that a fair—?

Yeah, that's true. Well, that's true, but I'm also super veiled right now still, even though I have some pre-birth memory that's returned. So, I don't have—thank goodness—full access to all that stuff, but yes, there are many, many, many, many, many, many beings, and only a very small percentage incarnate physically, and only a very, very, very small percentage are here on Earth. It'd be like if you go to Mount Everest, and everyone there is climbing Mount Everest, okay? And then you're like, "It's cold up here. There's like no oxygen. This is crazy. Look at—there's like, you know, 50 of us walking up this mountain. Is that a good representation of the whole of the population of Earth?" No, it's a relatively small minority of people that are—I'm not being critical, but crazy enough in the playful sense—crazy enough to go climb Mount Everest. That's like us spiritually. Okay? We are bold enough, courageous enough to dive this deep into the experience of separation. This is madness to come this far into separation and then see what we can do. It's alien as heck. This is a super alien experience.

I'm not surprised when Bruce says, you know, "I've always felt kind of more like—I don't know what I'm hearing Bruce say between the lines is, 'I don't even know what that place is, but I'm more called there than here.'" You know, we all kind of feel like that because this is an alien experience, and even though we're veiled and we don't fully remember that at the human level most of the time, it's the soul knowing, like, "This is strange stuff." So, this is like extreme sports. Being human is like extreme sports. Not everybody goes and does extreme sports, but there are a few who do.

So, anyway, yes, many beings who do not necessarily take this on, but this being that I came across had—it's interesting because I actually—so I shared my experience like I said about six years or so ago, and then two or three years ago, I heard Bob Monroe say something very similar to what I shared, and I never heard anybody say. He said—Bob Monroe is an out-of-body explorer who founded the Monroe Institute—and in one of his books, he says something like, "For many of us, the reason we initially incarnate is we encounter a graduate, that is someone who has actually mastered the Earth experience, and their spiritual capability and depth is so profound that we say, 'I'll do anything to know that, to be that, to be able to do that, to be that.'" I don't know how to describe it. That's such an important idea, but it's really hard to describe. But here we are. So, like, I—you know, that's what gets me excited is we are here right now. Like, the opportunity is right now. This is not a big hopeless pain fest. Okay? This is a huge opportunity today. Like, what are we going to do with today? How can we choose joy and love today?

Oh my gosh, I remember Robert Monroe in one of his books. He talks about two non-physical beings that are traveling through the non-physical universe or through the universe, and they—in this, it's like a tour group—and they come across this place called Earth. Yeah, and one of the two of them decided, "Hey, I want to go down and try that." It's like, uh, like they drove by an amusement park, and this guy liked what he saw in that amusement park, so he went down to experience it. The other one didn't have an interest in that, yeah, but he could watch what his buddy was going through. And yeah, it came to the end of that buddy's life, and the second guy was looking forward to his friend coming back so they can continue their non-physical life together. Yes, but the guy came back, and he said, "No, I want to do it again." And he kept going back in to have more experience.

Yeah, to the consternation of the other guy who wanted to just move on, let's leave this Earth behind. So, I find myself thinking, is this kind of your second go-round? The first one was just a fetus that you—I've actually—I don't know with the detail, but I know that I've lived many times. This is definitely not just my second go-round. Okay, at least hundreds.

Well, that clears up another question for me. I was thinking, you seem to be a pretty spiritually evolved person, and if this was your first incarnation, how could you make that kind of leap in your evolution? That sounds like—I have no claim. I have fear like everybody else. That's all I know. But I just know that I've had other physical experiences. I don't see—like, what part of us wants to know, "Am I evolved?" That's ego. So, it's fine. Like, we all are where exactly where we are, but yeah, so I mean, I know I've had many physical experiences. I know I only am certain of at least one other human experience. I know I was a human woman who had given birth, and after the giving—the labor process was really painful, and in being so, then I got pregnant again, and I remember having fear because I knew that the second birth was coming, and I basically couldn't avoid the pain because the fear that I'm here to process is something like inability, powerlessness to escape pain. That's like the main nature of the fear that I'm here to process.

So, I experienced the same fear in a different context in that life. This life, it's more around health challenges that I've had. So, the context might be different, but the fear energy is the same. Somehow, these experiences though are perceived as a benefit when you're in that non—go back to a non-physical. You chose to do these experiences because it was going to somehow contribute to the quality of your non-physical life.

Yes, yeah, we wouldn't do it unto itself. Actually, not that—not that this isn't wonderful. It's just we—we like, we wouldn't do the physical—we wouldn't sign up for this level of constraints unto itself. It wouldn't make sense. It just wouldn't make sense to do that.

So, that seems to indicate that there—and when we're in our non-physical form, we're striving for something more. And I don't know what that is. You know, some people say that you reach a point where you don't need to incarnate anymore, and there's another level of being in the non-physical that you can't access until you've learned enough lessons here on Earth to be able to—I mean, I think now let's turn a little bit to the out-of-body side.

Well, let me please comment on that because there's a couple of things there you said that are really important. So, first of all, I think it's important—this is a subtle comment because just with your subtle thing on your word usage—when you said, "When we are in the non-physical state," okay, we are only non-physical. I know that like that sounds crazy, but like we've got to get our foundations right, and the physical is occurring in the non—like, basically, you are you. You're not someone else. You know, when you're out of the body, you're you. You're exactly you. Like, the you that feels like you to you is who you are. Okay? Now, but like as a metaphor here on Earth, like let's say you when you have a flu and you're vomiting in a toilet, you don't feel as you. You don't feel as full of you as when you say are vibrant and healthy, right? It's similar to being free of the body. It's like you're still you. It's just you're much, much freer.

So, okay, so the you that is growing, expanding is the same you. Like, the you that's here right now, like it's not some other being using the human you as a puppet. It's you. Like, that's really important because we tend to get grumpy and say, "Well, my soul is using me, and I'm pissed. I don't like this experience." Okay, if you don't like it, then you don't like it. Why? Like, go into the rejection. What is—what where is the fear? You know, that's the kicker. Okay? So, now that expansion of being—I've like spent 10 years thinking about how to describe it because it's the thing we're doing. Like, at least from my experience, it's like why I came, you know? And the book is an attempt—every—it's just terrible. It fails so many in so many ways, but it's an attempt to use language to describe that.

But I'll just—but to say, but so I'll use some metaphors. Like, I understand why the great teachers of history have always used metaphors. There's no way to use language. Okay? So, this is a simple metaphor, but I think it's a good metaphor. If you're sitting on a couch watching television, and you've got good access to the snacks, and you're content and comfortable, and you've got your pizza or whatever you like, you know, you've got your drink or whatever, why would you ever go outside and go for a run? Like, why would you put yourself through stress? Why would you do that? Because you strengthen your body, gain health, and when you come back to the couch, you can actually appreciate it. You can appreciate even the snacks in a way that you couldn't before. You see, because now you have a contrast for the couch.

The physical experience is like the ultimate contrast. And so, what that means is it's like lifting weights. So, you might say to somebody, "Why the heck would you ever lay down and lift 50 pounds instead of 100 or 20 instead of—or 50 instead of 20? Go the other direction. Why would you ever lift 50 instead of 20 pounds? Why? That doesn't make any sense. Why would you put yourself through that? That doesn't make any sense." Because the greater the contrast, the more the growth potential through it. Now, just like 50 pounds on a bar, it doesn't do it by itself. Like, the weight will not lift itself. It's just weight. And the physical is just dense, dense, super dense, dense, dense, dense form, consistent, persistent, super linear time, super sense of separation, neutral form that we then put meaning on. It's very rigorous, very limiting. That's up. It's just limiting. It's not bad. It's limiting. That level of limitation is like lifting a thousand pounds.

Now, how do we actually lift the thousand pounds rather than just get crushed by it to death? You know, we—and this is so hard to describe because what I'm trying—what I want to talk about is quality of intention. Quality of intention means what is the real why you're making the choices you're making. Is it love? And is it from love and authenticity and freedom and creativity and joy? Or is it from fear and protectiveness and ego and rejection and us versus them and "I'm going to make sure I'm safe, and I don't like that. I'm going to run away"? It's not a judgment. It's just what is the quality of your intention? And we have such a limiting situation going on here on Earth, and we've had thousands of years of fear-based intentionality enshrined in our history. Okay? And our whole society is built on us versus them ideas and control of resources. Like, our whole society. So, it's pretty crazy.

So, in the midst of all that though, what quality of intention can you wield? Can you actually choose a little bit more love, compassion, kindness, service to others, joy, simple joy? Like, you could sit on your front lawn and appreciate the sunset and accomplish more than making a million dollars. Like, it's not about moving virtual objects around. You don't get to keep the virtual objects. You don't get to keep the money. You don't get to keep the body. But what you keep is you and your quality of intention wielding capability. You see? And if you can wield a quality of intention in dense circumstances, how much more can you do that when it's not dense?

So, if you can lift 100 pounds, and you do it every day for a whole lifetime, and by the time you're done, you're pretty strong, and you go to the non-physical, and in that reality, maybe this is a metaphor—things weigh half a pound, and you're like, "This is nothing. I just picked this something, throw this down the street." You know? And they're like, "Wow, how did you do that?" And you're like, "Dude, this is nothing. This is nothing compared to the denseness that I experienced on Earth." You see? And so, then once we've experienced that denseness, we may—we don't have to choose to come back. We may say, "You know what? I there's something about that weight, that denseness, that contrast that is valuable that I would like to re-experience or some new strength I'd like to develop." Right? Because it's not just one strength. You could say this is crude language, and I don't mean this literally, but it's like every virtue is its own strength. Can you learn kindness? Can you learn self-referencing? It's a big spiritual strength we come to learn, which is can you rely on yourself instead of everyone around you? Actually, when you need to, like higher realities, you don't really have to do that. We're all connected. We hold each other up all the time. Like, so to come here though, where you have to rely on yourself, wow, that's like, wow, that's actually a strength.

Or it could be the ability to wield creativity within a certain temperature of context. Like, we don't think of that as a spiritual strength, but to the creative soul, like the ability to even do something creative might be a very meaningful strength to grow. So, when we talk about lessons, it's not intellectual learning lessons. It's being-level experiential growth lessons. It's being-level lessons. It's a change of the quality of being through how we respond to contrast.

So, before I pose my more questions, does anybody else want—I don't want to—the question period here.

Mark, hi, Christian. Hi, I've really enjoyed what you were saying, and I can identify with a lot of the things you said. One of the questions that I had was you talked about metaphors for everything. Would it help to have a scientific paradigm that could describe the basis or the foundations for a lot of the things you talk about to maybe help give people a sense to where you can wrap everything up in a nice neat package?

Yeah, that would be really nice, and there are some who have tried. For instance, Tom Campbell, the physicist and consciousness explorer, he has a very dry, very clinical but helpful metaphor set. But again, it's metaphors. And the reason it has to be metaphors is because you can't start with the non-fundamentally real local and explain from there. It'd be like going into Minecraft, the video game, where everything is a bunch of blocks, and then trying to explain our world from the only using Minecraft blocks. You just can't do it. It's not built into the Minecraft block. Like, they don't—they can't do it because they're the lower dimension. Like, they are the non-native set of forms. So, the physical is like that, and so we can't start. So, our science right now is very focused on—well, materialism, which eventually we're going to figure out is not correct. Materialism is—it seems like it seems logical on the surface, very in very basic terms, but matter itself only exists as an experience and within consciousness. So, we'll eventually get there, and when we do, there's a great quote from Nikola Tesla. He said something like, "In the decade that the first decade that our science begins to study the non-physical, we will learn more in one decade than in all the previous years of science's existence." And so, I agree 100%. Like, yes, yes, we need to turn our human effort and our study in that direction. I'm just commenting though that it's also that this really cannot be limited to a local set of language. It's really like when you experience it personally, you discover why you can't say it. Like, yeah, I don't know how else to put it.

Right, and I think a lot of people have an intellectual understanding of things, but you can't really understand it until you have the experience, until you have the experiential knowledge as well to couple with it or to have it independently of—

Agreed. So, there's two levels that I want to point out there. Like, one is the human thinking mind based only on Earth-learned ideas cannot understand. However, that does not mean you can't understand. It's a very important distinction because you are soul. You are consciousness, so you do have the ability to fully comprehend and know. It's just not going to happen by sitting down and playing with local non-fundamental objects as if they were real and looking back up from here. You know, not fully. I mean, we can do it in metaphor set. It's like you actually—"A Walk in the Physical," my book, is an attempt to do that. It's part one of the book is 14 pages where I'm trying to say in 14 pages what is the physical experience, and then those 14 pages point to the rest of the book, and there's a Q&A section organized by topic where I try to speak to every major question because I'm trying to organize it in a way that's more referential even though I say it was more spirit's idea because if I was going to write it, I would just do it much more linearly, but it's much more referential. It's much more nonlinear. It's like this points to this. You can go over here now, go over here now, and then as a total, it hopefully helps start to paint a picture because it can't be done in a set of language.

Yeah, well, thank you.

Yeah, I have a question on out-of-body experience. Have you read books on the subject? Jurgen Ziewe? Not too much. I've read a little Jurgen Ziewe, and I've read a little bit of Bob Monroe, but not too much. I'm not super interested in reading other people's experiences. I'd rather meditate.

So, let me pose a question to you. See if you have a perspective on this. Yeah, I remember which one it was, but in repetitive out-of-body experiences, the idea is that they leave the physical reality behind, and they're now in a non-physical environment. And on some excursions—what's call it, just using a word—into that non-physical, they are in a vibrational state that is fairly low vibration. Yeah, and they meet entities that, for example, don't know how to fly and are just captivated when he shows that they can fly. And forgotten—Bill Buhlman talks about when he doesn't like being in a particular vibratory state, he'll say, "Higher vibration now," and he then—I don't know whether I don't want to use the word "ascend," but he moves into a state where the entities that he meets seem to be more evolved. And I'm wondering—okay, more evolved only from a standpoint of they can do more things. The nature of their interactions with one another are more loving and uplifting. There's less fear. Yeah, let's just say a higher vibrational experience, not more evolved because there are some extremely highly evolved beings here on Earth that are having some extremely low vibration experiences.

Yeah, yeah. So, does that resonate with you, the idea that in the non-physical, there can be—I mean, when you talk, you talked about meeting that highly evolved being, and yet you've had multiple life experiences. It tends to indicate that there is a growth that goes on through this experience, and that growth can become evident in the way when you interact with others in a soul environment.

So, that's second. I'll speak to the second comment first. So, yes, because in higher environments, we are connected right now too, actually. Like, every one of us is connected to each other. We may not visually see it or feel it or understand it at the human level, but we are connected. If I think about someone in this chat with a focused intention, I will be touching their consciousness even if you can't perceive it. So, in higher systems where we're not limited, we feel and know that connectedness. So, the nature of the other is seen and known.

I guess I'll just go on a tangent for a second and just tell a very brief story that I had an out-of-body experience one time. So, okay, so at the time that I had this experience, I was not a fan of my wife's ex-boyfriend at the human level. I had a silly ego thing going on, but I had this out-of-body experience where I felt and saw his soul—who he really was, who he is—and it was so beautiful and so rich and full of color and full of purpose, and I felt how his nature and my wife's nature overlapped in this very beautiful way, and I felt how his nature and my nature overlapped in a completely different but also very beautiful way. The way they overlapped was they shared a—oh, language is so bad—a creative mastery, I'll call it. I mean, we're all creative, but they were both on like creative missions, like that kind of thing. And then he and I shared what I would call a deep ancient honor. Like, we were both beings who valued honor as a concept and as an actualized thing, and I really resonated with him on that, and I could feel what he was doing in this life and how he was like Plato that had been run over by a car tire, and he was squashed. And what that meant was he had experienced no love as a child. Like, he wasn't nurtured, so he was basically handicapped from no love. Like, and he had—and then from that squashed state of being, he was—he is now in this life trying to create from the squashed position.

So, I'm just sharing that as an example because I could see and feel and know all that in a second. Like, it wasn't like hard because his nature—his soul and my soul—but we're also the part of the one, and so I could feel from him what I am. Okay? So, in higher systems, yes, when we interact with—so depending on the limitations of the system, okay? So, like here in the physical, we don't typically experience at a conscious level telepathy. That's not typical. Like, most people don't go walking down the street telling each other things in their minds. This is not Earth because the limitations are so high. We just have to talk to each other. We have to make sounds, and like I have to speak into this microphone. It has to catch the vibrations, which are symbols that you know, and then you have to figure like it's so crude. It's ridiculous.

But if you go to systems with less limitation, the less—the higher vibration, which generally is synonymous with less limitation, the higher you go because the limitation is less, the connectedness and the knowing of it is more. And so, because it's more, we absolutely can feel from those beings we interact with who they are, what they're doing, their nature, and we love each other by the way for exactly the unique nature that each one of us is and is offering. And that was one thing I felt at the IONS conference I was to go to—down in Far a path, but the IONS conference at Washington DC felt like a little bit of that where everybody was just celebrating each other, and it was freaking beautiful.

Okay, so that was the second part of your comment about interacting with beings. Now, meanwhile, your comment about vibration and lower vibrational non-physical realms—yes, so feel physical when you're there, really physical depending on the system, but like there's a—okay, so Earth is an extremely low vibration place because of the density, but also because of the fear that we all have here. So, we're creating this kind of temperature that is not real high levels. It's pretty mucky. It's like a loud playground where people are throwing mud at each other all day. You know, there are other non-physical layers. I just call it lower astral realms for lack of a better term. I'm not—I don't know much about how to label them all, but there are lower astral realms that are very close vibrationally to Earth but slightly less limiting, but they're still thought-responsive manifestations of the vibrations that we are entertaining here on Earth. So, thought form can be seen and felt and known there, but the astral itself has many layers of vibration. You can go to very high-level, very high vibration realms that are much closer to our true nature.

So, I don't know if that speaks to your question.

Try to give other—there we are. Apostle, clap. Hello, hello, hello, hello. Good to see you. Hey, brother, how are you? Fine. Just I want to give you a hug. I want to give you a hug, man. I want to give you a hug as well, and that is no lie. I just want to say thank you. I'm about to go in tears. Oh no, it's okay. But I just want to thank you for sharing your experience because it gave so much confirmation to my walk. I've always had this inside of me. I would be in church, and you know, my pastor and all would say, "You know, we were created by God," and all this inside of me saying, "I was never created. I've always been." And I could never ever even to this day—but it's such—words can't do justice to the frequency that I feel when I that statement. But you have just confirmed so much to me, and especially about quality of intention.

Oh, oh, oh my. Oh, thank you so much, man. Just thank you for being. Thank you, brother, and our path will cross. That's for sure. I would love to have—beautiful. I can't wait. I can't wait to live. Love to have him on my Facebook live. Oh my God. Okay, let's do it. Let's do it. Oh, I'm sorry, Jim. This—thank you. When I see—kiss you for this night. Awesome. Do it. Let's do it. I'm excited. We're seeing you. I love love. So, I know I'm a normal person too, but I love love. I'll give anybody a hug anytime. I love it. Yes, yes. Come to Phoenix Memorial or Labor Day weekend. Yeah, I'll be—we'll be in Phoenix. Are you going to be there, Jim, this year? I will. I'll be at the conference. Yeah, that's awesome. Cool.

Yeah, I would echo what you said earlier. The—I've been to one, two, three IONS conferences now, and it's a fascinating feeling you get when you walk into this thing. There is so much love flowing around. It's true, and it's a—for me, it's a reminder where we all came from. You know, we don't get a chance to experience that depth of respect and love for one another in our normal lives, but when I go to that conference because the majority of people have had a near-death experience and have traveled back to our native realms, and what the stories they bring back—you know, it's there's some interesting research that shows—it was referenced in Bruce Greyson's book after—they did some research in some universities where students who get exposed to near-death experiences have shifts in their attitudes and values. And I think that in some ways, that's what we're trying to do with Consciousness Cafe, inviting people like you to speak. It's inspirational, and the more comfortable people get with understanding who they are and being able to talk about that, it just builds.

I have a person close to me who had psychic abilities but didn't understand what they were until she came to a Consciousness Cafe gathering. She thought it was a—she had a mental health problem, and when she talked to others, they said, "No, you know, you're just empathic like me. Let me give you some tips on how to control that." I mean, the quality of her life is significantly better because of that sharing. And my hope is that more of us will get comfortable and talk about what you heard tonight. I met this—I heard this guy, Christian Sundberg, talk about his decision to come in and have a physical experience. Yeah, a lot of people say, "What are you talking about?" I know. Well, the more comfortable we get talking about those things, I also have talked with many people here about after-death communications. There's some that came out in the Journal of Near-Death Studies that maybe 30% of our population has had an after-death communication, but we don't talk about it because we have a culture that says that's not real. Yeah, but I found that when I talk to people about it and I give them safe space, then these stories come out, and people are thankful to be sharing in that. So, absolutely, here, take what Christian talked about and feel free to talk about this stuff. The more open we are, the greater this awakening, the faster the pace of this awakening that I think we're working towards.

Yeah, I agree with that 100%. I'm very passionate about normalizing it because it's real. Like, this is not like just a religious thing or a woo-woo, like new age or whatever. Like, it's—we are multi-dimensional beings. Like, it really is real. So, like, I'm a very down-to-earth type person. I'm a project manager by trade. I use my left brain all day. You know, I'm logical. I'm down-to-earth, and I feel like we can share these things with each other in a very non-judgmental, open, vulnerable way. Like, yes, absolutely. And one of the greatest blessings I've experienced personally is after sharing, so many people have reached out who have had experiences that are similar—some very similar to mine—and they're not alone. Like, I mean, I've probably met 50 other pre-birth experiencers by now. That's a lot, and every one of them thinks they're the only one on the planet. You know what I mean? And I'm like, "No, you're normal. You're fine. Like, this is real, and we can normalize that and take the stigma away." It's like we can get closer to communicating in that way and connecting in that way. That's why I love that IONS conference so much. It was just—I mean, I couldn't get 10 feet without a hug or someone giving a—not a reading, but just like sharing energy with each other. And oh, it was amazing.

Anyway, so I applaud that. My kids—they're 14 and 12 now. Last year when we went—I guess they were 14 and 12 both still when we went last year—and did they get—they get something out of participating? I mean, I don't know that to my surprise, they did. I say that because I thought that they would not enjoy it as much as they did. Yeah, they did enjoy it. They're coming this year too.

Better understanding of who you are as a result of hearing—I think so. I do think so. I mean, in my house, it's kind of a normal conversation topic. They're teenagers, so they're kind of sick of hearing about it kind of thing. You know, "Okay, we know we're not human, and Dad, I'm going to go play with my friends now." That's totally fine. Like, we're here to do that. That's fine.

Yeah, yeah. I have a—my just turned 95 yesterday, and it's interesting to compare the generation differences. You know, oh yes. There are so many constraints on her generation about what was acceptable to the point where I remember her telling me her parents would be aghast if she dated an Italian man. Yeah, you think about how constraining that is. Oh my gosh, we have so much convention. Yeah, so I'm excited about how—you know, if you look at the trajectory of things, I think young people today are coming in more aware or a greater maybe set a greater potential for awareness, and what we have to do is help them understand that all the negative things you see around you—the things we need to work on, the environment, political discourse, a lot of—but if that's all you think that your life is about, you know, how depressing that is. And I think we can open them up to something more, and there's a purpose to this. Then you start accepting you have a role in this. You can—if you want to change it, then you can change it.

Absolutely. There was another topic you mentioned before tonight that I thought I'd jump to because you had asked before that we touch on it, and that is how do we process fear? So, I'll jump right over to that just for the sake of time. So, we're here to grow in love, simply put, and processing our fear is synonymous with growing in love. So, it's very important that we do it because that quality of intention that we talk about—when we have fear, we end up making a lot of choices from the fear, from ego, and rejection that just rises from fear. So, fear is the real problem. You know, people say, "Well, anger is the problem or hatred is the problem." Not really. I mean, like, those are surface manifestations. At the root of it, there's fear. Like, if you look deep enough, you'll find you're afraid. Okay? So, that's like a huge topic, and I don't mean to just make a super casual comment to it, but I just lift up one idea that I thought I would share tonight.

Okay, so fear always arises when we buy into a negative self-perception or a negative perception about the world that is not in alignment with the truth. So, if I perceive I am powerless, the truth is I'm a powerful being. Like, that's what I really am. But if I fall asleep into actually perceiving, "Wow, this circumstance is super proving to me that I'm powerless," that might provoke fear because now I'm buying into a perception that is vibrationally not what I really am. Then what happens is when we have those fears, we don't like that, and the ego does its number one job, which is to avoid it, cover it up, justify it away, you know, come up with some new thing, new strategy, new belief, new substance, new person, new activity, new distraction—something just as long as I don't look at that fear that's down there. And then we double down on that 700 times, you know, and by the time we get to be adults, we're like so fearful and ego-ridden, we don't know what to do.

Okay, so the thing is that this sounds backwards, okay, but the way then to process fear is not to avoid it but to go into it, towards it. That doesn't mean you have to go looking for it. Life is going to lift stuff up to you, and like if you're here to process something, you will get a chance. Don't worry. Like, you don't have to be a masochist about it. But when something happens and it provokes fear, okay, be very alert and allow yourself to actually go into the fear and feel it and not reject it. Don't reject the feeling. Don't reject the sensation. Your mind will immediately come up with stories. Oh, but the story, stories. I'm actually not talking about the stories. Put the stories away for a minute. Just put them on the shelf. The feeling itself—what am I rejecting? Where is my rejection? What is the really, really, really terrifying negative self-perception because it's down there somewhere? I'm powerless, or I'm unworthy of love, shame—that's another huge one on Earth—or I'm not free. Those are some of the really big perceptions.

When those get triggered, allow ourselves to fully feel the present moment, and then what happens is when you allow it and fully feel it, feel it to heal it. The light of your awareness automatically—because now you're choosing your intention is no longer to run away. So, your intention changes. When your intention is to say yes to it and to feel it, it automatically processes it. Fear's like a messenger arriving to your front door, and the messenger is like wrapping at your door, "Hey, you have this negative self-perception. Boo." And you're like, "No, go away. I don't like that." And you shut the door. It comes back, and it wraps a little harder, and it wraps a little harder. Getting rid of fear is not about getting rid of it like it's not about like, "Oh, I don't like you, messenger, so in order to get rid of you, I'm going to listen to what you have to say." That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actually let that guy in for long, sit in my living room. Would you like some tea and biscuits? Tell me what you're here to tell me. Like, deliver what is the negative actual feeling of rejected my whole life. And when you're honest and genuine about actually feeling that crap like all the way, it will process. It will heal. It may feel like it will destroy you, but it won't. It will not destroy you. It's about having such willingness that you're even willing to potentially be destroyed where you won't. That's how much willingness it might take to face our deepest fears.

So, I'm sharing that because my physical journey in this life is about facing fear, and I had post-traumatic stress in my 20s. I processed a huge amount of that. I no longer have the symptomology of that, and I just know that like there was this clever phrase written on the chalkboard of my counselor in my 20s that I thought was just insult at the time and just stimulated my ego the wrong way, and I thought it was BS, but it turns out to be quite literally true. And the sentence is, "Power lies in accepting powerlessness." So, when the powerlessness arises in your life in whatever form, can you accept it? Can you say yes to this moment anyway? Can you keep your eyes open, feel it all the way? Man, that willingness is the active ingredient that I want to lift up. I mean, this topic is a big topic. We could talk about this topic for 10 hours, but just in five minutes, I'm just lifting up this idea that when fear arises, it's okay if we don't run away from it, and if we actually allow this moment to show us what we're believing about it.

Like, if five weeks ago, I was in a car accident. Somebody hit me from behind and totaled my car, and I had minor injury. I went to the ER. I couldn't focus my eyes at first, had a headache. So, I'm in the ER, and I'm feeling very shocked, and I can't think quite clearly, and they're about to do a bunch of tests on me, which in the past is something I haven't really enjoyed. When you're in an experience that like you just got hit by a car, it's violent. You know, it's loud. It's very, very visceral, very deep. It doesn't feel light. And so, because that's the level of the rigor of the physical stimulus we might receive, it might be pain. It might be—maybe you're vomiting when you have the flu. Maybe you have a chronic illness, and you have pain every day. Maybe you're wrestling with the idea of chronic illness that you can't escape. That's its own hell. Whatever it is, how do we handle that object? And meditation, by the way, can be extremely helpful and empowering because it separately allows us to develop a space from which we can see these very important thoughts more clearly.

So, like, you know, in the ER, like, "Okay, I feel shocked. I'm about to get some tests. It's okay. I feel very strongly right now. That's okay. That's okay. I feel strongly. You know, I can't think right now. That seems like a problem. That's okay. If I can't think, why is that? Why does that mean? Why does the meaning have to be a problem? If I can't think, why? That doesn't have to be a problem." You see, we are always assigning the meaning. We're always doing something. The ego wants to do something with the object and the story and the sense and fix it somehow. Can we shift and allow and say, "You know what? I'm not going to make an enemy of this moment because, like Cliff Notes ending here again, the universe is not your enemy. Life is not your enemy. I know that here in the physical, we see blood and death, trauma, lack, violence, ubiquitous misunderstanding, ubiquitous ego activities. I know that's what we see on the surface, but what meaning are we applying? We are the authors. Like, what are we doing with it?"

Yeah, anyway, I just want to lift that up because you mentioned that before our conversation today that it would be good to touch on.

Yeah, let's see if anybody else has any questions. I'd like to explore—we're an hour and 15 minutes into this almost.

Where can I get this book at? It's available for free online at the third link down on my website. It's called "A Walk in the Physical." So, that's if you want to read it online. It's also on Amazon in print and Kindle, and I did record the audiobook. That was fun, but I got it to pass, so it's on Audible too. "A Walk in the Physical." I'll put it in the chat, but yeah, it's available to be read online for free. It's not about money. I don't care about the money. I just want to share. There's the website. I just typed it. I think that went to everybody. Yeah, yep.

Well, if we don't have more questions—oh, we do have one. Go ahead, Sharon. Thanks for raising your hand.

You have to unmute yourself.

Hello, is that better? Yeah, there you go. Ah, thank you. I'm fascinated by this whole subject. I watch a lot of NDEs, and I watched a video of Christian earlier, so I'm just really into this, and I'm curious about what are some of the other lessons we come here to learn?

Yes, so that there's such a high quantity of answers possible that I couldn't even start because the soul is extremely vast in its qualities and knowing. And so, because the soul is so vast, there are so many different angles of experience we might come to learn or even just services we might come to perform. We might come to be physical just to like be friends with someone for 10 minutes they really need it that we love them, and we know that we could be there for them in a unique way that they really need. Like, we could do just that, or it could be a multitude of things. I mean, like, life is not just one thing. It's a complex, rich experience. So, boy, there's so many different things we can learn. We could basically say that any virtue is worth exploring. Any creative power is worth exploring. Our native qualities like freedom, love, joy—all the many aspects of freedom, love, and joy are worth exploring and understanding. So, boy, it could be so many different things.

I'll just say one thing though. Like, the soul—when the soul has a goal, it might not make a super lot of sense to the human personality because we tend to think, "Oh, I want these big, broad, really cool, you know, easy-to-understand goals." But our nature is very unique and very specific, and like something that you come to experience and learn might be such a specific angle of something that like I couldn't even conceive of it. You see? Oh, how important is it to be active in the world? It's very important to be active in the world, but it's also—but okay, so our effect on the world is not entirely dependent on our activity though. Like, we affect the world just by what's going on in our own consciousness because consciousness is affect. So, we're all one part of one pond. So, when you shift your consciousness, you are affecting the whole pond. So, I'm encouraging that first because it's not like you need—like, we don't have to—okay, like this is a double-edged sword here, but I'm saying you don't have to do anything. Like, consciousness, nothing is actually required of consciousness at the deepest level. At the same time, as we seek to actualize and express love and overcome fear, like when we really know that we are unconditionally loved—unconditionally bold, italicized, underline the "un" part—unconditionally loved, that means also like and there's nothing required of us there. In that, there is total freedom.

Okay, so in that freedom, when we find that love, then loving intention means action. So, a loving intention means we will take some action to those around us. Like, if you intend to do something, you will do it. So, but that doesn't have to be big either. Like, it doesn't have to be you have to like save a thousand people in a crash or something. Like, if you smile at the person in the grocery store or just are genuine in some small way, like the size is actually not what's critical. What's key is the quality of the intention itself. You see? It's not the size. Like, we're so focused on doing here on Earth. Like, we're so focused on the money and who's got what objects and where the objects are today and who's wielding what force. Dude, all of that is temporary and virtual. Like, the thing that's real is quality of intention.

There's one near-death experience I read that I really love. I forget the name of this person every time, and I apologize, but this person had a life review, and in their life review, they saw that the most celebrated moment of their life was when they were a child, and their family stopped at a rest area, and their family asked this person to fill up this bucket of water at a stream for their family. So, they went down to a stream, and they filled up this bucket of water, and they were carrying this heavy bucket, and they saw a dry tree over on the side a little bit out of the way, and the person went out of their way and went and watered that dry tree and then continued on their way, never thought about it again. But because—but that act, they did it completely just from unconditional love. There was no benefit. It wasn't about size. It was just quality. It was just this tree needs water. You see? And they didn't even think about it again. They never even remembered that they took that action, but it was so celebrated because the purity of that of their intention in that moment. We all can do that. Like, we don't have to go and solve all the problems in the world. If we just bring love to bear and joy to bear in whatever small way, the small stuff is the big stuff. It's one of the names of the one of the essays in my book is called "The Small Stuff is the Big Stuff." That's what I mean is like those small actions—even if there's they could be big actions too, of course—but I just mean actions that are motivated by love are valuable for their own sake, and those are of course important.

Hope that speaks to your question.

Oh, yes, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you.

Rita, oh, Jim, you're on mute. There's a question in chat. Sorry, my phone went off. I silenced myself. No problem. Should I go to Rita or BNA? Okay, yeah, then we'll come in Rita. Okay, so BNA wrote, "In your opinion, if it is the soul's intention to evolve, why don't we remember our lessons more easily?"

So, evolution—I know what it sounds like we're talking about behavior, but we're actually not exactly talking about behavior, and we're not actually even talking about understanding in the intellectual sense. We're talking about quality of being. So, the evolution that is occurring is a quality of the being by being something. It's an integration of experience, and in order to have the human experience, that means forgetting. So, it is in the forgetting. It is in the immersion—it's a good word. It is in the complete and total immersion into the obscured, veiled perspective. It is precisely in that that the opportunity lies. Now, we may remember it. It's possible, you know, because we can let go and stop watching the movie so deeply, or we can evolve and integrate experience such that our deeper nature rises back up to us. But is it necessary that we remember all of who we are? Actually, no, because you're still you. You're still having the experience, and you do retain all of your experience.

And actually, there are some—a couple of other practical reasons just very quickly. The veil is actually really necessary for a couple of other reasons. One is it protects us from homesickness because otherwise, we'd be so darn homesick, and we won't be able to get up in the morning. Like, it's ridiculous how high vibration and beautiful our higher nature is. If you want to be the human, you got to—you know, not get distracted. You got to have some veiling. And the second thing is it really allows you to focus on just this activity and just this story without the—I was going to say pollution—it's a bad word—the influence of old ego patterns and previous experiences. So, you get a fresh slate. So, you're still you, and then in this life, you might develop patterns, but you're still you, and it's actually a good thing that that experience is independent. It's a little bit like if you go do one thing on Monday night like go to the movies, and then on Tuesday night, you go play golf. You don't really want to be watching the movie while you're playing golf or playing golf while you're watching the movie. That's a bad metaphor. Like, you want to just be doing that thing that you're doing because it's in that activity of being you the human that you can really learn experientially.

I hope that speaks to your question.

Yes, thank you. I do enjoy the metaphors. It's very relatable. Thank you.

Sure. Sorry, one other thing that came to mind is also I re-read your question, and you said "more easily." So, one other just very technical reason, just totally neutral technical consequence—the deeper we are associated into form, the harder it is to see clearly or remember. So, that is like the more that we really are focused on the thoughts and really focused on the sense data and really focused on the pain, it gets really hard because the veil is just obscuring it. It doesn't actually—it can't actually change that we're connected to everything. All it can do is kind of put like a foggy cloak down so that you can get lost focusing into the form. And then once you get lost focusing into the form, you know, you're not going to see past the fog practically speaking. But if you let go of the form, we can remember more easily.

Yeah.

There. Yes, thank you for time and sharing your experience. It's so fascinating. I've always felt like I didn't belong here. I always—since very as long as I can remember—and I want to touch on the subject of spirit guides. I've always had the knowing of a spirit guide or a guide, someone guiding me that I would always ask questions, and they would always give me the answers. Can you touch on that subject?

Yeah, we—yeah, we so there are actually more players participating that are not physical than there are physical players. I was just getting a little ping there making sure that—so yes, there are more non-physical players involved with our simulation than there are actors on stage even. And each of us have guides. So, typically, it could be one or a small number of very guides who personally know you really well and have similar energetic awareness and similar maybe qualities, maybe even similar challenges but have a good vantage point, and they can help you. And then there are guides who are more universal, I guess would be a good word, but basically, they're specialized in certain types of work and vibration, and then they might visit during a period where you need that thing. Like, if you're just as an example, if you're dealing with grief and it's a certain flavor of grief, there might be a guide who really understands that and might show up for like a second even—might for us it might seem like a second—it might nudge us in a way to help us just for that, just as an example. But yeah, we do all have personal guides that watch over us throughout life and know us really well.

I always felt that. Okay, it's so funny. Every time I would come up with a question, you or someone else would answer it. That's nice. Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you again.

You're welcome. Any other questions? Feel free to raise your hand. We don't have to limit this. We go again, Mr. Clap.

Yeah, Christian, can we incarnate at will in our—at will? What do you mean by "at will"? You mean now while we're human, or is it an active will? What do you mean by "at will"? That's a good question. Good question. Can we reincarnate or incarnate?

Well, so yeah, so I'll make a comment, and then tell me if I don't speak to your question, please. So, let's not confuse the player sitting at the computer chair with the video game character. So, as the video game character in this case, Mr. Clap, Mr. Clap is not really all that you are. You're you. So, if you think you're the human, can that part of you—well, no, that part of you is doing the human thing right now, of course. But meanwhile, the deeper you, the soul-level you, is already beyond the limitations of the physical. And so, in our metaphor, that bigger you can—I know this sounds strange—but can play more than one video game at once. So, it's not limited in the same way that we are. And so, if you as the non-constrained you would like to sit down and play Zelda at the same time, even if in a local linear time system those appear to be different times, that's no problem. The bigger you can do that.

Now, there is such a thing as full progression time, so we're getting into topics that are really hard to talk about because we're in linear time, so we're trying to fit our understanding down into this non-fundamentally real system here. But anyway, we can say there's soul progression time, so that you as a being after you are finished with a given life, you look and you're like, "Wow, oh wow, I really learned some stuff. I really—look at that experience I had."

You will then make a choice about what to do next, and you will learn and grow, build upon previous experience. So, there's both—so there's both soul evolution sequence, and there's also the one now. Those are not contradictory or paradoxical even though they sound like it from here. That makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. If I didn't answer your question, please hold me in.

You did. Okay.

You see Rita's question. Oh, is it true we have several lives simultaneously? Yes, so I think my comment I just made directly speaks to that in the best I can, which is that all is occurring within the one now, and that one now everything is also—there's also soul evolution time, and I don't know how—I can't articulate how the two are at the same time, but they're both true, and they just look—it looks wonky from here because we don't like it one of those two things. They don't look right from here, but yes, we—so like you could just say like you're doing other things right now, actually. You don't even have to think of it as several lives right now.

Think of it like this: like even when your body sleeps, you're going off and doing things in other systems whether or not you remember it or not. So, you're in—you are multi—when we say we're multi-dimensional beings, that doesn't mean you're just here and then you're just there. It means no, right now, you are multi-dimensional. Yeah, you're just not aware of it because your focus is on exactly because we're watching the movie really deeply. Yeah, yeah.

Susan, unmute yourself and pose your question.

Yes, um, I was in another meeting, and there was the lady talking about this, and she said that she had this poster behind her, and it was like a sun with all these rays coming out of it. She said that those rays are like parts of your soul, so it could be in different places at the same time, and that's how she explained it. Cool.

So, I thought that was really cool. But also, I feel like I've had a lot of lessons to learn in this life because I am so different, and I've learned and changed so much from the beginning of my life to now. There is an issue where I have to be very careful around other people because they can—I can make other people angry really quickly, and I had a star chart done where they said, "You have to look out for that." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm aware of that." Is there something—are there dark parts of your soul? I mean, is there a—is I mean, you said that we're all love and light and joy, but are there dark parts? I mean, is there something that some that people see in me that's dark?

Well, without commenting specifically about you, to your first part of your question, okay, so there's two levels here that may sound paradoxical but again aren't. First of all, the fundamental level is that beingness itself is perfect, and it is already love and peace and joy. That is always our true nature. Then we created something that we're not. That the universe and more than one universe—all the universes of form—and we engage universes of form, and as we do, we are only so good, so evolved at actualizing and knowing our true nature in those realities of form.

So, the only—there's not a real problem. The only thing we're striving against is what we would call unevolved this. That's it. Unevolving this is synonymous though with fear, and fear is synonymous with all sorts of ego shenanigans, and we might stimulate in others where our own fear is because that's what we do. Like, in the physical especially, we tend to either get what we fear or create what we fear because we're afraid of it. We're actually actualizing it or drawing it to us in a way because we're trying to process. We're trying to grow through that.

So, it's not that there's actual darkness, but there is practical darkness, of course, in that we have fear that can be very, very deep and dark and low vibration. Now, even though it's low vibration, we transcend duality itself. Like, the substance of consciousness gave rise to duality. It's not duality isn't even fundamentally real. So, even as we talk about low vibration, high vibration, the fundamental substrate remains what it is. It remains love and peace and joy.

That's why, you know, when you hear experiences where people go to like hellish reality systems and there are beings who might be focused into low vibration, the act that helps is to get them to look up, to focus towards the love and the joy and the peace because it's their own focus, their own stickiness with some lower vibrational aspect, some fear, some ego pattern that is why they're there because they're free-willed. So, if they want us—if we want to stay focused on it, then we will stay focused on it until we choose to grow up. Like, basically, we're here to grow up. So, the only thing that is the any problem is the part of us that's not grown up yet, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. There's no—it's not judgment. It's not, you know, what I mean? It's not better or worse. People, it's just—it be like if you know if you compare a grapevine and an oak tree, which one's better? They're not. Oak tree is tall and strong, and grapevine produces grapes. That's how we are. But a grapevine might not be able to withstand the wind in the same way.

So, we might come to a life that's tough to and I'm like, "Oh, I can't manage this wind." Well, it's okay right now. You know, your state is more like a grapevine. That's okay. See, it's not about better or worse. It's just we explore the weaker aspects of self. Weaker meaning unevolved. That's all it means. Like, it's really important we recognize that because the fear itself doesn't actually have the power. It feels like it does when we're terrified. It feels like it has all sorts of power. Like, I'm not making light of that at all. Oh my gosh, no. Terror like, oh, but I'm just pointing out that that whole thing, we are deeper than all of that. Consciousness is always deeper. It's always at the root. It's nothing is taking place outside of it, and it's made of bliss and love and joy.

Susan, I'll throw a concept out to you. Most of our talk has been about it's a kind of a self-focus. What did I come here to learn? Okay, but earlier Christian made a comment that I fully agree with that sometimes we come here—there are other aspects of why we come, and that's to help others. Let me—can I interrupt real quick? I just want—I'm sorry, interrupt just want to say one important concept. The other is yourself because we are all one thing, but we're here to help one another. It's a collective. So, the point I was going to make to Susan was I'm not saying this is your purpose in life. I'm saying if you create anger in others, it's possible that that was part of who you agreed to come in and be. You could be helping others learn how to deal with anger. That's possible. You're the instrument for creating that anger so other people can grow and evolve. I'm not saying that's what the answer is. I'm just trying to say that the complexity of the options out there—we—I mean, that's part of the veil. I think we're not allowed to know with specificity why things are the way they are because that would compromise the quality of what we learned.

Bill, Mesty, welcome. You have just joined the room, and you got a little question already. Go ahead.

Okay, Bill, you there? You may be trying to figure out how to activate his microphone. No problem, but that's one. While waiting for Bill to get active, I want to thank everybody for participating. I mean, it's easy for me to generate questions, but I'm really happy that others that now even at the late hour are getting engaged and showing their thinking and absorbing everything that Christian said today. I'm just happy to have this share the space and have the space. It's real.

Like, I think that people—not to put us in a category, okay, but like people like us that mean meaning people who are like aware and searching have some level of awareness tend to feel isolated or alone or overstimulated by the raucous world we live in, but that sensitivity and that love that we have can be a strength too, and we can feel that when we get together as a group and share. There's a resonance that takes place, and that is a beautiful thing. So, I just want to encourage everybody here to feel empowered. It doesn't matter like what age you are or what state your body is in or any of that stuff. Just you know, if we can focus on this together, there is a resonance that takes place in consciousness, and that actually helps the whole world.

Bill, have you been able to figure out how to articulate your question? If not, L had one, and we come back to Bill. I'll go ahead and lower Bill's hand for now, and Bill just raise it if you'd like to.

Sir, okay, somebody else. Yeah, L.

Yeah, I was just having a thought that the lady who was talking earlier—it just came to me that sometimes if you have light and people aren't in the light yet, they're going towards it, there's nothing like you said, there's nothing wrong with them. They just haven't reached that yet. They will perceive it as fear from you if you have a light that's brighter than theirs. So, it's not always that you're projecting something that's not good, and like you said, in the end, we are all one, and we all have the same capabilities.

And what I'm feeling here lately is that we're getting really close to the end where everybody—everything like they used to say in the 60s and 70s, "Everything is everything," and all one, and veil is about ready to come down. And I remember in the Bible, it says, "Suddenly, things would happen." So, they may—they may not, but we all know that we're bigger than what we think we are here because this is—it started out as third dimension, hopefully we're in the fourth by now or fifth, and we're going to go higher than that. But when we get to that higher, we'll be what we intended to be when we first started here, which is of one mind.

And the way I look at it sometimes is that God is the ocean, and we're just drops of water, and everybody's the same. We have the same qualities and everything, but we're here to help each other. And like Jim was saying before too, I had the thought that maybe she was here or some of us are here to help somebody else. It's not even about us. And I think about little babies who come here, and they're not even here for two or three days. They turn around and go back home. It's not—they signed up for—you know, they could handle it, but they couldn't. So, and that's just the thought.

Yeah, thank you.

All right, Bill, want to unmute? Looks like you're muted.

Bill, if you prefer, you could just type your question in the chat.

While we're waiting for Bill, just a brief comment to the last comment. So, yeah, sometimes the light, as you put it, can stimulate someone else who has fear because like one of ego's main activities is to like secure the self through beliefs, and if you say something that challenges beliefs, nothing will trigger fear faster. So, it very much is quite literally a challenge to fear.

So, you know, of course, we should try to be judicious about—we don't want to tip over someone's apple cart if we're not ready, but like I have a friend of mine, a non-duality teacher in the UK, who the way he puts it is, "We don't want to pour ice water over somebody if it's not going to be helpful for them." Yeah, so, Bill, it's just up. I'm—what I'm saying is sometimes it's just you being in the space. You don't have to say anything, do anything because energy is there.

Yep. Yeah, no, there is also so there's that's a different aspect of it because there's a vibrational—most people are not consciously aware of it. I am energetically sensitive, so I do feel it. There is a difference in vibration with each person and each person's intention, state of being, you name it, and there are vibrations that locally are not resonant. Let's just put it that way.

Yeah, thank you.

You so Bill typed in chat. He said, "You mentioned that life is like watching a movie. The danger in us thinking this is that we could become too detached from experiences we're having. So, would it not be better to say that if we're watching a movie, it's a very interactive one?"

Oh, yes, the movie is a metaphor. It's just a symbol. This is an interactive movie, and the very nature of this movie is that we have to live with the choices that everybody else has made, including ourselves. So, like last—like when I got in that car five weeks ago, the gentleman behind me was probably just looking out his window. He made a choice to get distracted or something. I don't know, and he hit me and destroyed my car and sent me to the ER. Like, I have to now—I just that's okay.

That's my circumstance set now. Very much an interactive movie. The interactiveness makes it high stakes, and the high stakes is what gives it such ump—you know, so much experiential learning value. Even so, we can simultaneously be in the world but not of it. That's not a detachment in the dismissal sense. Fear and ego dismiss. Awakened detachment is not dismissal. It is actually full engagement, full awareness, full clarity, full presence, full commitment, full interaction, and yet in that state of full awareness, we just know—feel deeply—we know it like it's not like an idea. It's actually felt in consciousness that we transcend the world and that we're in it but we're not of it.

So, hopefully, that speaks to your question. And I have about four minutes, and then I'm going to have to go. Jim, sorry.

Yeah, well, it's about time to bring this to a close, I think. Christian, I very much appreciate your willingness, and we missed the first opportunity. I'm happy that we got able to get this together tonight. I think you can tell from the reactions of people that what you had to say touched a lot of folks, prompted some thinking, elevated our vibration. So, I appreciate your participation.

That everybody here, it's a collective effort. So, this will get recorded and posted probably within a day on our YouTube channel. Oh, great. Bill, particularly you missed the of this, you'll be able to watch this probably tomorrow or the next day. I'd like to point out that if you're in Greensboro, we have an in-person gathering at the Benjamin Parkway library this Saturday at 10:00 a.m. We're going to do a little meditation, but then we're going to focus on remote viewing and talk about techniques that we can use to bring perceptions to our conscious mind, and we'll get a chance to try a couple remote views. So, bring a pencil and paper and prepare to be surprised at what you are capable of.

Proceeding next Tuesday, we have another presentation. My friend Ana is going to be talking about her work with graphology. You probably have received a promotion about this, so I would encourage you to consider attending this.

It's amazing all the different ways we have of ascertaining underlying aspects of ourselves. So, again, Christian, I look forward to seeing you on Labor Day weekend out in Phoenix. Excellent. Anybody else wants to experience another level of love in a group setting, you ought to consider coming out to that conference. All right, thank you for being here this evening. We'll bring this—thank you, everybody. Have a wonderful evening experiencing being human. Thank you. It's wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you. Take care. Thank you. Now, must stay awesome. I must stay brother. Good night, all.