PRE-BIRTH EXPERIENCE, Why Life IS SO HARD & YOUR Life BEFORE Incarnation! | Christian Sundberg (Next Level Soul)

Host: Before you continue, what was it like being a 5- or 6-year-old dealing with this kind of information? Because I barely remember what I was like at four or five. But I know I didn't have the cognitive ability to deal with that kind of information. So how did you deal with it?

Christian: Yeah, it was very natural. It's the most natural thing in the world, actually. I remember being in a diaper and just barely being able to walk and being aware of what I'll share today. Okay. It seemed very natural and normal. Nobody else talked about it. I mean, I knew we're not really from here. You know, we're just coming to experience this place and have this human experience. And nobody else really talked about it. I didn't talk about it. I just thought everybody knew. Nobody else talked about it.

Host: So at the age of six, you lost the memory. Do you remember losing this?

Christian: No, no, it's just kind of the more I became associated with the human character, the more deeply I became associated with form, you know, with the story, with the objects, with the identity. The more distant it became until it was gone. And then I didn't remember it at all. You know, I had no, I didn't even remember that I had remembered, you know, up until the age of 30. When I took up a long-term meditation practice, and much to my surprise, I first began to have non-physical experiences after a few months of out-of-body experiences, very eye-opening, very worldview-altering, you know, very in-your-face, not subtle experiences. And at the same time, I began to have this pre-birth memory return. And it was not strange. It was the most natural thing in the world. It was like, there were leaves on the ground, somebody just blew the leaves off of the ground, and there's the grass. You know, I mean, like, it was not strange, but it was so real, so much, even more real than what I experienced day to day.

And these memories both seem incredibly ancient and also like they're happening right now. Like, they feel like they're millions of years ago, but they're also alive right now. I don't know how to describe that. It's not like an earthly memory. And I shared it with a couple of people, and they seemed to say, "Oh, wow, that's pretty extraordinary." And it didn't even occur to me that it was extraordinary. I didn't share it for eight years or so because, you know, I'm a working professional. It's not the kind of thing you talk about, you know? It clears a room pretty quick, you know? Plus, and then anyway, so it's not going to be well-received by various groups, including maybe conservatively-minded folks.

And so I just didn't share it. But I felt compelled to share, and about four years ago, I just got this intuitive nudge like, "The ground is fertile now. It's just like the ground is just fertile enough now that there is benefit to sharing this." So I did. I shared with Mira Kelly, who happened to be Wayne Dyer's past-life regressionist, so she was familiar with this content. And after I shared it, I thought, "Okay, I got it off my chest, whatever. I never have to talk about it again." But it took off. It became very well responded to. I've met so many people that have had similar experiences. I've probably met probably 40 or so other pre-birth experiencers by now.

So I'm definitely not alone. And what's really interesting is when those people are able to reach out to me and say, "I have the same memory of the same place or the same experience pre-life." And I just think that's so amazing because I can feel the vibrational distance between there and here. And if we can come all the way down here to the Earth experience and meet here on these topics and make that connection, it's just so cool. It's a really amazing energetic thing to do. Yeah, so and then I published a book, A Walk in the Physical. I spent about six years writing it with the help of spirit, really. I received intuitive chunks at a time. I never felt like I sat down and wrote it myself. I felt like I was being guided throughout that process.

And I felt like a bone-level accomplishment when I finally pressed the publish button and put it out in the world. You know, it's available for free on my website. It's not about money. I just want to share the information. I'm very passionate about who we really are, you know, what this human experience really is. And it's very exciting to me to share that because the actual truth, like the real, concrete truth of the spiritual context in which we exist, is wonderful. It's so amazing and full of love and joy and vibrance and freedom. And I'm very passionate about sharing that because we live in a world that is often less so. You know, we have a lot of fear. So anyway, just some comments about how that emerged.

Host: So okay, so when you started your meditative practice and you had this kind of awakening, what were the memories that came back to you? Can you talk a little bit about the pre-birth experience?

Christian: Yeah, sure. Okay. So I'll try to go in order, but again, there is a sequence to these memories, but it's also beyond what we would call linear sequence. So it's difficult to describe. Okay, so I remember long, long ago, before I had ever been physical at all, had any physical incarnations, coming across a being who had been physical. And I could feel from this being the quality of his nature, his essence. This is very hard to describe.

And in those systems, we share telepathically. Everything's telepathic. We just have a constant sharing of feeling and information and knowing, you know? It's not like here, where we have to throw clunky words at each other. There, you can actually feel the other being as a part of you. And the environment is part of you. You're connected to all things. And I felt from him this amazing joy and power. And I asked him, "My goodness, what could you possibly have done to be this?

And do you feel as much joy and power as I feel that you feel?" And he shared, "Yes." And he shared with me this huge amount of information and feeling and context. And one of the main things he shared with me is that he had lived a physical life. While he lived many lives, one in particular that he shared was a time that he had suffered physically from a long-term chronic health condition.

And it was very painful. But the way that he chose to meet that experience, to sort of describe the quality of the intention that he brought into that experience, allowed a refinement of his being. And it was so beautiful and so full of power. And I said, "I want to do that. I want to do that. I'm gonna do that." Which is very, like, very inspired.

Host: Where do I sign up? Where do I sign up?

Christian: Yeah, exactly. And he said, kind of playfully, like, "Yeah, that's what they all say. Like, you don't know how hard it is. You don't know. You just don't know how difficult it is." And I said, "No, I mean, I want to do this." And he said, "Well, go talk to your guides." So I don't have right after that, but I know I lived many times. And then I found this being later and shared with him that I was on this path. And he was encouraging for the path.

Okay, so but the majority of the pre-birth memory that I have is of a time somewhat immediately preceding this life where I had taken a long break after being physical. And I remember this guide coming to me over and over again and asking every once in a while, "Are you ready to go back here? Are you ready to go back yet?" And just putting them off, like, "No, I'm not ready yet. No, I'm not ready yet." And finally saying, "Okay, I'm ready." Like, basically reminding me of my own intention to do this.

And so okay, I said, "Okay, I'm ready." So then I remember with this guide reviewing what I can only describe as my state, like who I am, who I've been, who I was. This is very hard to articulate. It's like a, I don't know how you would describe it, like a graph with many different qualities. And you could even say virtues or something, you know, just areas of knowing, of experiential evolution that you knew more or less, something like that. And there was this one area that was just blatantly obvious that I needed to work on. I don't think "need" to work on because we don't have to.

It's not about need. We choose to do this. But there was this one area that it was like, "Oh, wow, I really should do something about that." And it was this really deep fear. And it was a fear that had bested me in a previous experience. And in that previous experience, I had turned into something of an egoic monster because of this fear. And I had damaged many other people through the fear. Because fear is at the root of ego, you know? We act out of ego because there's some fear down there that we haven't processed, something we haven't come to terms with. So this fear was very overwhelming. And I remember asking, "Is it even possible? Like, has any other being in creation ever dealt with a fear that's this low vibration in this specific way?" Because it was like a very specifically angled vibration. I don't know how to describe this, but a very specific fear vibration.

And I knew even from that point of view, it was very low vibration. And I remember the being saying to me, "Yes. And in fact, you have all time available to you to do so. There's no hurry." And I just knew, and this is how strange to me as the human, you know, because from this point of view, I know how difficult it has been in this life. But I just said, "If it can be done, I'll do it." Like, I just knew because I knew the depth of my being and the depth of what we all are, the unconquerable life that we are. And so then they brought me a life, a physical life that was appropriate for this intention of meeting the fear. And it wasn't this lifetime. It was one just before this. And I reviewed that life. And I accepted that life.

And then I remember accepting the veil. Okay, so the veil is just a term. It's just a metaphor, but it means the constraints that go along with being physical and having an incarnate experience, that is the limitation of knowledge, having your memory cut off, and having your connectedness disappear. And it felt to me like the best way I can describe this is the metaphor of like a sound amplifier that produces a pitch. Like, it started at a very high vibration, and then you turn down the knob. And then when you get to the bottom, you turn it down some more, and then more, more, more, and then crank it down some more, and then crank it down some more.

That's how it felt in the body of my awareness, to plummet down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower, into the vibrational place of being physical in the womb. And once I arrived, I was like, "I am not doing this. There is no way I'm going to tolerate a lifetime. This is so dark. This is such low vibration." I had so much fear immediately that came up. And so I mustered my might, you know, and I fought the veil. I fought my way out. And I was successful at doing that. But I realized that I had killed the fetus that was to be my body. And I ended the life. And I had a life review, just like near-death experiences describe.

Even though I'd never physically been born, I was responsible for how I had affected the mother. And not only the mother, but hundreds of other people who were affected by the mother because of my fear. You know, and I had all these great intentions going in, but I could see very objectively, "Wow, I have a lot of fear. I gotta do something about this." So, like, from that point of view, you know, everything is okay. It's just a play. You know, it's a big play. But still, I could see like, "Oh, wow, you know, I really need to grow in this way." So I spent some time practicing surrendering to the veil in a place that I can only describe as a veil acceptance simulator. It was like going to a room where they dunk you under the water of a dark pool.

And they push you into this—it's just a metaphor, but it's kind of close—it's like being pushed underwater in a pool. And then you can stay under there and see how long you can hold your breath, and then you cry uncle, and they let you out because it's just a simulator. Whereas in the real veil, you can't cry uncle. You have to let it sink in all the way. So I remember practicing, and then I still wanted to do this intention of meeting the fear. So they brought me this life. So, this life now is Christian. And I remember reviewing this life in incredible detail. And I knew that this life was not as appropriate as the first one would have been. Like, you know, you can't put numbers on it, but if I just, being crude about it, the first one, if it was like a 98 or 99% good match, this one was like 87 or something. You know, I don't know. It just was good, and it was good, but it wasn't as perfect as the first one. But it was still very good.

Host: Real quick, I mean, you said you reviewed this life in detail. Do you mean that you were able to see Christian from beginning to end, what you are going to experience, and how this quote-unquote game or play or movie was going to play out, and what it would do for you in your growth as a result?

Christian: Yes, but it was not a... So it was like a probability tree. So it's like if you took a tree and laid it on its side and started at the trunk and then worked your way out to the branches, it was like that. It was like I started at a point of context, and I knew that my choices and the choices of every other player in the game would be influencing each other, and it would nudge certain paths to happen. And there were some that were more likely or less likely. And I knew that it was very likely that I would suffer a trauma in my 20s because of this biology. I knew that this body has biological limitations that other bodies don't. And I knew that that would help facilitate, among other things, this trauma that will befall me in my 20s.

And that trauma would give me the chance to be crushed and to re-experience this fear. And I say "chance" because from that point of view, it was seen as an opportunity, you know? Like, from here, the victim, the ego rises up right away and says, "Oh, no, I'm not okay with this. I would never sign up for this." But from that point of view, I knew that the incredible opportunity that was being handed to me in the chance to re-experience this fear and to meet it and to try to integrate it and heal through it—oh, my gosh, the amount of profound personal growth and even the growth of all that is that was possible through that was breathtakingly huge.

But anyway, to your question, yeah, so I reviewed what it would be like to be me in these various branches. Like, there were events in it, but it was less about events and more about what it would feel like to be me, to be exactly me in this circumstance or at this age. I remember reviewing it in terms of ages. I remember being aware of one certain potential exit point as an example that hasn't arrived yet. I remember reviewing qualities about the life and then making requests. Like, for instance, I remember asking if I could be intelligent again because I knew that I had been intelligent in the last few lives. And it was a trait that I preferred, and I didn't want to experience a life without that quality. And they said, "Yes, you can do that."

And I knew that certain qualities of my parents would be very important. Like, for instance, I knew that my father would instill confidence in me. And that confidence would be paramount for me to have like a rock to stand on to meet the fear. You know, and that was something that my father did for me. You know, he was very accepting and always lifted me up and gave me that confidence. Not only my father, my mother, my grandparents, you know, that was not an area I needed to be challenged in this time. I needed the confidence to meet this fear.

And I also remember asking—and excuse my hoarseness, by the way, I think my wife, as I mentioned, my wife has COVID, and I'm a bit under the weather right now—so I remember asking, "Can I... I don't want to forget everything this time. I want to just have a, Can I just have a small, tiny bit of memory?" And they said, "Yes, you can do that, but it will make the journey more difficult." And I knew why. I could feel it was because the contrast here would be even greater to have some recollection of that higher vibrational state of being and still be here. It's such a pronounced contrast that having even a glimmer of that conscious knowledge added to the contrast. But especially, I knew even that contrast, like all contrast, was an opportunity for growth. So I accepted, and I remember there having to be a moment to say yes, to actually accept the life.

I don't remember that moment, but I do remember being in like a waiting area, and then this guide coming to me and then just suddenly grabbing my attention like, "Go now!" Like, very abrupt, like almost rude, not rude, but like grabbing me by the shoulders like, "Earth time, buddy! Like, not later, right now!" And I was like, "Okay, now." And then like locking into that, and then being in this—how do I describe this? It's like I've described it like a technician's chamber or like a mechanic shop that was over the Earth. I could see a shaft below me with the Earth below. And there were these beings there who were very technical in nature. And they are very, very skilled at matching the veil to you, to the individual. Because like, the individual has so many rich qualities, and the life and the body and the circumstances have their own energetic thing going on.

And they, like, I don't know, they make everything fit. They make everything jive. And they're able to make this organic connection work. Like, the veil is like an organic blanket or something, and they're able to fine-tune that. And I remember then being over this pit and them asking me one last time, "Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do this?" Because I knew once I said yes, I was strapped in for the ride. It's like getting on a roller coaster, you know? Once you strap in, you can't get out until the ride's done. It was a little bit like that.

And I remember saying, "Yeah, I'm ready." And then again, this huge plummet and vibration down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, lower. And having all of my knowing disappear, and all my connectedness disappear, and all my memory just not there anymore. And coming down into this vibrational point that I can only describe like arriving to the vacuum of space, like a place that had no heat.

There's like nothing there, but also simultaneously very, very dense. Like, the body was like being shoved inside of a tiny tuna can. And simultaneously cold and empty. It's so hard to describe. And this time, I just focused on not fighting it. You know, just like, "Okay," because I remembered the time before when I had rejected it and ended the life. So I just let the veil do what it would do to me. And I surrendered to it. I just surrendered to the veil. And eventually, from the point of being in the body, I remember sending one message back to the technicians: "Did it take?" And then sending one message back: "Yes, it took." And then I felt really accomplished, actually, because even the act of making it to the physical is quite an accomplishment because it's such a vibrationally different place.

So then I was there for a while. And then eventually, I said, "You know what, I am not doing this. There is no way I'm going to tolerate a lifetime of this. I am not doing it." And my fear began to rise up again. And so once again, I began to summon my might to fight my way out. And as I did that, the most holy moment in my entire human life happened. The Great Spirit of God—what we call God, beyond all language, the great I Am of all things, Source—came to me and expanded me back out. And I felt all the universe within me. I felt our Sun, the Sun of Earth, churning within me. I felt its life. I felt its consciousness and its bliss, this deep, raging bliss of the Sun within me. And God said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this." It's the most holy moment for me in this life because that's what we all are.

And it's like the most sensitive, personal experience. But after that, I was so relieved. It's like, "Oh, I didn't lose everything that I am," you know? Because I felt like I had lost all that I am. And so I stopped fighting. And I returned to being in the body and not fighting and just surrendering to the simple existence of being in the womb, you know? And the next memory I have is what seemed like a long time later, being born physically. I remember the shock, the cold, the light. I remember having no idea what was going on. Just looking up at these beings who were taking care of me, the nurses in the room, and being like, "Who are these beings?" Like, I had no idea what was happening, but it was intense.

I was so curious. I remember just being intensely curious. And it's funny because when I mentioned this memory to my father, he said, "That's exactly what you looked like." He said, "You had these wide-open eyes for a little baby, and you were looking around at everything with such curiosity." I remember that. I remember just being so curious. And I know they say that babies can't see, you know, certain distances. I don't understand how I remember this, but I do remember seeing the room. And later in my life, I drew the room from my memory, and I said, "You were here. Here was the bed. Here was the heating grate. Here was the window.

The doctor was standing here." And you know, she confirmed that that was how the room was laid out. But anyway, so after that, I don't have memory for quite a while, you know, until I was older. But I used to have assumptions about this life that I thought would apply because of the time I had been in the higher realities. Because I assumed qualities of our true nature that were true there would apply here. That's, yeah, not well, there's a lot that's different on Earth. Like, I remember assuming that we would be able to feel each other's emotions here. That turns out not to be the case much of the time. I remember assuming that anyone in a position of leadership or authority would be loving and wise. And that's not always the case on Earth, especially the larger, especially the higher up. I figured the higher up you were in society, you must be even more loving and wise. Because in higher systems, love and wisdom is the power. You know, so beings who are in positions of authority—with air quotes—you know, they're loving and wise. That's not always the case on Earth.

Host: Not so much, my friend. Not so much if we look at our world today. No, it doesn't. It's almost the oddity when you find someone who's good and wise at that level of leadership. Your story's fascinating, man. It really, really is. I have a few questions. I have a handful of questions. When you, during this whole process—well, first of all, do you remember any other physical incarnations? Do you remember, like, any past lives?

Christian: I have some snippet memories from other certain experiences. I remember being a woman who had given birth and having been pregnant a second time. And the fear that I've experienced in this life, I experienced as that woman because I was afraid of the pain of having to give childbirth a second time. That's just an example. So I have some brief memories like that. Not too much. You know, like, sometimes when I'm curious, I try to reach out to that, and I just get this gentle, like, "No, you don't need to know that." And I'm totally okay with that. You know, I respect the veil. I'm still veiled very much.

Host: So you're not, you weren't Alexander the Great or someone like that, because everyone always is very famous in their past lives. Always. Francis of Assisi, you know?

Christian: Nope! Nope!

Host: Okay, so when you lost your memories, I'm assuming your life went down the road. I've read somewhere that you were working in the nuclear industry somewhere, and you were spiritual at this point?

Christian: Yeah, I think I've always been spiritual, but for the majority of my adult life—early adult life, at least—it was through a Lutheran Christian context. And, you know, part of my awakening process was a deconstruction of what, up until that point, had been my religious beliefs. I had to be humble enough to recognize that I had certain key ideas wrong. But I was always seeking, you know?

And it was that seeking that led me initially to the work of the physicist and consciousness explorer, Tom Campbell. And it was one sentence he said in one of his videos, actually, that sent me down this whole path. And, you know, so I'm very grateful to Tom. His book and his teachings helped a lot. The biggest thing he said was, "Go meditate. Go find out for yourself. Go see what you are, what your awareness is. Beneath thoughts, not the thoughts, not the stories, not the sensations. Go investigate very objectively what your awareness is." And I love that advice. I feel like I found so much through that. There are so many answers that are available to us through our true nature, you know, beneath the human thinking that seems to be so important to us every day.

Host: So when you started to get these memories back, how did you handle the rush of knowledge and understanding? I mean, I'm assuming it was jarring at that late stage because, as we get older, we become more... it's not that we're not as malleable in our thought patterns, but it's harder.

Christian: I understand what you're asking, but actually, I think in my case, it was a state of awareness that changed first. And then the memories were then natural. You know, as I grew more and more in awareness of what I really am, which is my awareness itself, consciousness itself, and less associated with the thinking and those firm identity thoughts that seemed to make us up, that was first. And then once that was where I was, larger aspects of myself began to rise up all on their own. So for me, it actually was not shocking. It was the more normal thing.

Host: Yeah, and when did you decide to come out of the closet, as they say, with this information? You think it clears a room?

Christian: Yeah, it does clear a room. No, I think about four and a half years ago or so, I decided to share. I felt intuitively nudged to do it. And after I shared the first time, I remember going for a walk and feeling relieved that I had shared it. But I also felt this energetic shift in the, like, branches. And I'm like, "What is that? That's interesting." It's a very personal story, you know? And it's like, I'm a normal guy. I don't consider myself special in any way. And I live a normal, you know, relatively normal American human life. So sharing did take some courage, especially because, in my case, my wife's parents are very conservative. And it did cause quite a social difficulty for us.

Host: Thanksgiving dinner was rough, is what you're saying?

Christian: Basically, yes. But, but on the other hand, what are we afraid of, right? You know, our true nature is what it is. I couldn't not share. In fact, when it first came back to me, I remember—this sounds so silly to me now—but I remember saying to my wife, "I'm going to create flyers. And I'm going to go and put them in people's mailboxes, and I want to tell people, 'You are a multi-dimensional being having a human experience, and there's nothing to fear.'" And she's like, "If you do that, you're gonna be that guy." And I was like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be that guy."

So I didn't do that because that would make me that guy. And you know, that's not the way to reach people, I guess. But I was very excited. Like, when I realized this, like when I had out-of-body experiences, I mean, it's so eye-opening. You just want to go up to people and say, "You don't need to be afraid. You are a multi-dimensional being having a human experience. This whole thing is like a play that we've created for fun and for expansion and for creativity. There's nothing ultimately to fear." And when, because when we know that, when we know who we really are, man, we can live lives of joy, and we can shine that joy to each other.

We can be free here on Earth. We can actualize our true loving nature in the Earth context. That's what it's all about. You know, it's not all about moving objects and buying things and making big empires. No, it's the acts of love. It's the quality of intention that we bring into even the smallest moments, you know? Like, even how we pet a dog or smile at someone in the store or whatever. Those things, that genuine love and that genuine joy that we bring into Earth in even the smallest context, that's what matters.

The context itself is kind of like a big illusion, but we are spirit. Our consciousness, we are really aware, and we endure. We are this like the substance of what really is, and our intent, our ability to choose something, is our primary power. It transcends the physical. It operates through any reality system that we engage. So if we can evolve the quality of our intention towards love and past fear, that is lasting growth. That's lasting power and expansion that remains with us far past the end of these extreme limitations of this earthly experience.

Host: So it's very much like—and I've said this on the show before—it's very much like playing a video game where the higher self, the soul, is the player, and then we are Zelda. And we're running around, and we, as players beyond the veil, we're like, "Oh, yeah, let's go down that road. He needs experience points in order to defeat the next level. And it's not going to be easy, and we don't want to go do that. But he's gonna probably die a couple of times beating up these ogres because he needs the experience level to be able to grow on the grind, right? So you have to keep doing it." So us up top, we're like, "This is the work we got to do. This is up, up, up." But I'm assuming for Zelda, it's terrifying.

Christian: So, yeah. So I want to just make a comment here because that, so I understand that from the human perspective, it feels like we're just Zelda, and then there must be some higher soul. We're a part of this making these big old decisions, and here we are just stuck in the rat race.

So I'm just, I just wanted—oh, there's more. Yeah. So it's more than just a connection. I just, this is important: the higher self is you, right? Like, the you that feels like you to you, the you that's making the decisions, that you that lifts your hand, is the higher self. It's the same you that's gonna be here after the body is gone. So sometimes we want to play Zelda without a sword.

Host: You know, if we beat—here, you and I are of similar vintage—you know, Contra, you remember?

Up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, start. How many times did you beat that game with the cheat code where you had all the power and all the guns, and you would fly through the game? I remember at a certain point, I'm like, "You know what, I'm gonna play this with one eye open," because I knew the game so well that I needed to challenge myself constantly.

And I would play the game again, like, "I want to, I can't play. I'm only going to lose. I can't lose one life. I have to do the entire thing without losing. If I lose a life, I start again. I'm not even going to." So I would challenge myself constantly because we had the secret code. So it's very, very similar to what we're doing. It is like that.

Christian: So you could say metaphorically, some of the higher, less constraining reality systems are like playing Contra with the cheat code on, so you have unlimited lives, and you can't fail. But then when you really want to play, and you really want to try to do it without the cheat code, guess what you find out? You're not as good as you thought you were.

Right. Yeah, because it's a lot easier when you die like five minutes. Yeah, when you have the big sword, and you know where everything is, but all of a sudden, the sword is gone, and you're in hand-to-hand combat, it's not so easy anymore with the elders coming out at you.

And that's how it is with Earth. So here we are, maybe with a broken body, yeah, or maybe with a circumstance where you were not given the love, the nurturing that you needed to grow, right? Site in us psychologically? Well, or maybe you have some context in your society that is very challenging. Maybe it's a war-torn context. There are so many rich, rigorous contexts on Earth. But what's really important to understand is that the contrast that Earth makes available is the tool. Like, we transcend the contrast. We are non-dual, you could say. You know, we transcend all the ups and downs of Earth, but we use it. We use the contrast.

And through it, we can refine and expand who and what we really are. That expansion is incredibly valuable and powerful. And not every being wants to play Contra without the cheat code.

But the beings who want to try—you could say, not everybody wants to climb Mount Everest. But there are those who go climb Mount Everest, and then when they get there, they're like, "Oh, my gosh, it's cold. There's no oxygen up here."

That's correct. That is the nature sometimes of the human experience, right? It's cold, there may not be any oxygen. Whatever that metaphor might mean in your life. The question isn't whether or not it's cold. The question is what you do with it. The question is now, how do you meet this moment? Can you meet this moment with love rather than fear, whatever that means? All the things that love can mean: humility, compassion, gentleness, even with yourself, strength, you know, perseverance. All the things that love can mean rather than fear and all the protections of the ego. Can you do that even in your context? That's the name of the game. And it is an incredible opportunity. It's not some, you know, masochistic exercise. It is a gift. Being human is like being given a winning lottery ticket. And now that you're here, you get to decide what to do. It's amazing.

Host: So then let me ask you that question. How are souls chosen? I'm assuming there are a limited amount of souls, though they keep growing. I mean, our population keeps growing. There's a limited amount of avatars.

Christian: Yeah, there's a limited amount of Zelda out there that we can play this game with. So how are souls chosen for this experience?
Yeah, so when I can, so when I do remember, I mean, I certainly can't speak to the full depth of that question. Sure. But I can say at least two things. First of all, the soul has to be interested. Because we are so—we're totally free-will beings. Like, I mean, it sounds silly, but there are many beings who are not going to decide to come to this level of separation. Like, this is like going into outer space, you know? Not everybody wants to go into outer space. Why would you want to do that? That's crazy. Why would I want to feel this separate from everybody else?

Host: It's like right now, Mars. There's a big talk about Mars, and like, who's gonna go to Mars? And in our lifetime, humans will probably go to Mars. And you ask the question, and some guys and gals are like, "I want to be first in line." Yeah, exactly. And the rest of us are like, "I don't need that experience. Thank you."

I don't need to skydive. I'm solid in my life experience right now. But others, I need to do it every day. So it's just a different perspective.

Christian: So no, you got it. And it's very much like that when it comes to physical incarnation. It's like skydiving. Not everybody is going to want to skydive.

Okay, so the first thing is they have to want to skydive. And the second thing is there has to be a level of proficiency.

And what I mean is, we have lots of experience as souls. It's not just the physical. It's not like there's physical and then one other reality, and that's it. There are countless reality systems, many with rules that are very, very different from our Earth experience. And for different purposes. And as souls, we engage all sorts of different experiences. And so, in order to play a human, you have to have a certain level of—the language is very lacking here—but soul proficiency, you know? You need to be ready, so to speak, to engage a context that's this rigorous.

And so then the guides are very adept at matching because they know the goal of the game, so to speak. And they understand us very well because they're very evolved, very loving, very wise. And so they are very good at, like, going through the database, you could say. You might think of it like putting in a search in a Google search or something. Like, they put in the parameters of you and your intentions, what you're looking for. They get back some results, they review the results, and then they take some to you and ask you, "What do you think about these?" Some people are given multiple lives to choose from. In my case, it was just that they brought me one. And then they brought me one because my intention was very specific. Other beings may have much less specificity with their intention for incarnation. And it's just like, "Give me whatever. I'll take any slot. I just want to get in. I just want to get some experience."

So there was—I've heard from other near-death experiences and other spiritually evolved people that I've spoken to on the show that there are lifetimes that are called either vacation lifetimes or just like, "Hey, you know what, in this life, I've really had it. The last two or three lives have been pretty rough. I wouldn't just—let me just do this lifetime where I have a body that can absorb as many drugs and alcohol as humanly possible. I'd like to be rich. I'd like to have, you know, be able to do this and that. I just want to enjoy myself. Let's see what happens." And that's a lifetime. Because, you know, you and I both know, in the press, there's constantly these people who have these lives that put it out there. So have you—do you understand that? Does that make sense? And by the way, that's just one vacation. That's one avatar who wants to do a lot of drugs and wants to drink and be able to do—there are other ones as well. But I'm just curious, what's your thoughts on that?

Yeah, so I didn't review that specifically in my pre-birth experience. But I do feel that we sign up for certain kinds of experiences, and relaxing experiences may occur. I'm reminded of one of the Seth Speaks comments. He says something like, "While they're typically very busy and active as souls, they might take a break by incarnating as a very simple life form for a while to just exist." And so I don't have firsthand experience with that, but I feel intuitively that that's probably correct, you know, that we can sign up for vacation-type experiences. That being said, like you said, it's not the context itself that makes a life of vacation. We can act—it's actually the quality of our being that enables, within a given level of constraint, us to have, you know, a more loving expression of joy or not. So, yes, we might sign up for less constraining lifetimes, depending.

Host: Well, yeah, like if you sign up to be a fisherman in Fiji, and you never leave the island, and your entire life is about fishing, spending time with your family, living in paradise—not a rich person by any stretch of the imagination—but when you wake up in the morning, every day you wake up and you're in Fiji. That might be a lifetime, and that's a simple life in many ways.

Christian: So yeah, it's the Fiji. It's not the Fiji itself. We actually apply the meaning to all the contexts, including Fiji. Fiji has very nice colors and temperatures by comparison to some other places on Earth. But we always apply the meaning to our life. So I'm just pointing that out because a vacation life is not specific to a location or even an occupation. It's the quality of being we bring into it and the meaning that we put onto a given context. And I'll just also say this, like, from my perspective, I suspect that when I'd like to rest, it's not going to be through an incarnation. There are ways to exist that are much less constraining. You know, it's not just that there's physical, and that's your only option. There are many other reality systems and states of being.

Host: But this is the densest.

Christian: Yes, this is so. This is the—I remember, okay. I don't know if you want to go down this avenue, but I remember knowing—I know this is gonna sound really woo-woo—but I remember being aware as this universe was going to be created. And knowing that there was this intention being issued forth from Source but through us all. We were all involved to take this to the next level, like the next density, that was the new lowest density experience. And we were full of so much excitement at it. So it's like this—there's like this huge in-breath and out-breath thing of universes, you could say. And there's like this beautiful pause between. It's very hard to describe, but there are these moments where there's a pause, and then, "Okay, now we're going to take this to the next level." And there was so much excitement to be able to be this dense, to have this extreme level of engagement and contrast, because then the opportunity for expansion is that much more. It's a heavier weight to lift.

Host: Exactly, it's a heavier weight to lift.

Christian: You're gonna grow. Your muscles are gonna grow much faster if you're lifting heavy.
That's a great metaphor. It's like, why would you ever lay down on the weight bench and lift 100 pounds instead of 20? You know, that's a good metaphor for why would you? I mean, the metaphor certainly has limits, but it's not a bad metaphor for why we would sign up for challenging contexts.

Right, exactly. There are profound opportunities in the context, even if, from the human point of view, they seem very difficult.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, without question. Now, this is a concept I'd love to hear your thoughts on. And I've heard others speak about this—the idea of dealing a deck of cards, where you, as the higher self, the soul, is the dealer, if you will. And each card is a life. And you could have multiple lifetimes at the same time, but all still connected to the player in the game. Because, from my understanding, even from studying spiritual texts, the higher self, the soul, can do multiple things at the same time. If we can't, then Jesus has a lot of people on near-death experiences because Jesus is always working on near-death experiences. He's the hardest-working man up there, I'll tell you. So if he can't do that at the same time, he's got other doppelgangers working for him. So I'm assuming that beings can do multiple things at the same time, be in multiple places in time. So what are your thoughts on us being able to experience multiple lifetimes at the same time?

Yes, yeah. So all linear time is a creation. It's not fundamental. It's a way of experiencing. Okay, so that's an important way to approach linear time because we tend to think of linear time as like a fundamental, you know, part of reality. Right? But actually, what's happening is not the physical universe. What's happening is your experience of the physical universe. And that experience takes place in sequence. Okay, but to the higher self, the higher self transcends that linear time sequence. And so, from our perspective, we could say that all is happening in one now. Now, this language is very limiting, and it's very difficult to speak to you from here because, again, we're coming from the very perspective of defined linear time. Like, we are at the extreme point, looking back, saying, "What do you mean, everything's happening all at once?" From the soul vantage point, I can at least say there's like higher time. And there is sequence that takes place, but it's all within the one now. That's the only way I can probably speak to that.

Host: So it's possible, in other words. Yeah, there's a possibility of it.

Christian: Yeah, in our metaphor of playing a video game, you can play more than one video game at once. There's no reason you can't play Zelda and Contra at the same time.

It would be challenging, but for the higher self, it's not challenging. Like, in my pre-birth experience, when I reviewed all the possibilities of this life, I reviewed millions and millions of possibilities in seconds. You know, it was not hard, but the bandwidth is ridiculously wide. It's infinite. It's almost infinite. You know, it's—I don't know what to put words on. It's huge. So that's what the soul, you know, is working with. It's not like this. You can think of the human as like a subset of the soul, and this subset is bound by linear time, but the soul isn't.

Host: Right, exactly. What is your understanding of soul groups?

Christian: Yeah, so I'm aware that soul groups exist. I don't have too much specific knowledge about them, but I have had times in my life when I've come across individuals who I felt were a part of my group. It's meant that people have different meanings for soul group. The way I'm using the term is not multiple characters have one soul. I'm talking about multiple souls that are of one vibrational affiliation or something. So I do feel that they exist and that they perform similar work. You could say, like, as souls, we have certain—oh, the language is so bad—certain qualities or capabilities that are unique to us. Like, each one of us is like a vibrational universe. And that vibrational universe has many colors and sounds and qualities and aspects. It's very hard to describe. So I feel that souls that are of a similar bend or intention work together and congregate. Because, in higher systems, geography is vibrational. It's not physical geography. Physical geography may occur in reality systems, but we tend to relate to those that we are vibrationally resonant with. Earth is the place where you can show up to people in a room, and they don't resonate. And now you get to be stuck with them.

I've experienced that. But in higher systems, like, I'll just give a very brief example. One time, I was out of body, and I was doing something, and then this woman came to me who I know physically in my city. Her and I were in a mediumship circle together. And she got my attention. She's like, "Hey, it's Mary." And we're telepathically exchanging. She's like, "We're going to go to this other place." And I was like, "No, I'm going over here. I'll see you later."

And I just zoomed off and did my thing. At this one, trying to describe it was an energetic work that I was going to do. So there was no pretense. There's no social pretense. It's like, "No, I'm doing this." But two weeks later, when I saw her in person, when she opened her front door to me on Earth, she said, "You blew me off." I couldn't believe she remembered it. I was like, "I did? I can't believe you remember that." I didn't believe. I'm sorry. Like, from the human standpoint, you have to say you're sorry. But from the energetic standpoint, it's okay. Everybody is exactly who they are. It's okay if you resonate with that over there, and I resonate with this over here. That's great. You're who you are. I'm who I am. And so that vibrational, like, you know, you follow your intention where it wishes to go. You don't like sit there and make yourself, you know, you don't force proximity like you might do because of social convention on Earth.

Host: Fair enough. Fair enough. Now, this is a question I get asked all the time because, you know, on the show, we've talked about reincarnation, about past lives, about near-death experiences, things like that. Many of these ideas are thousands and thousands and thousands—some of the oldest ideas, pre-religion, pre-organized religion, even. But people always have this one question like, "Why did we forget? Why is it necessary for us not to remember these quote-unquote past lives?" I always say, "You can barely deal with the life you have. Can you imagine having the memory of like four or five other lives with all the drama and pain and suffering? How do you think psychologically you could deal with it?" But I'd love to hear your point of view on it.

Christian: So first of all, the forgetting is additive for a few reasons. Okay, one, if you want to fully experience being the human, you gotta be the human, man. You know, if you want to be Zelda, you gotta be Zelda. You can't be Contra-conscious in Zelda. There's no Contra in Zelda. There's just Zelda and Zelda, right? So if you want to be the human in your story, then you need to surrender and let go of everything else to be fully immersed in your human perspective.

That full immersion is precisely where the value is. So it actually adds perspective value when you can forget everything else and only have the perspective of being Alex or whoever is listening today. And then it's also additive because, like you said, you are basically free from—so okay, we do have qualities that we carry from life to life because we are the same soul from given life to life. But a given lifetime might develop certain attachments, form associations, and ego patterns.

And so it can be helpful to let that go. And like, the root fear, if it's unaddressed, we could remain from one experience to another. But let's say in one life, you really strongly associated with some conservative religious affiliation, and let's say you were a terrorist or something. If you live another life, that whole association is not even there anymore. It's gone. Like, you have no memory of that. Now you're still you, but now you get a fresh slate. Now you get to start completely over. You get to—you have to learn everything over again. All the language, all the patterns of life, everything your parents teach you, everything has to be relearned. But that's not just negative. It's like a new—it's like being given a brand new set of cards.

Host: We are starting to level over again, but without any information about the game.

Christian: Right! Well, you do—you actually, the soul, you do have some information. It's like starting a brand new game so that you can just play that game. And that is what playing that game is about. So I think that's the most concise way to put that. And the third reason is that being veiled protects us from homesickness because the depth of joy and love and freedom that we really are is, oh, my gosh, it's breathtakingly deep and vast and huge.

And to have recollection of that can be debilitating. Like, how are you going to get up and go to work in the morning if you knew, for instance, that the sun was in you right now? You could feel it. Like, I say that because of my pre-birth experience. I felt that. I knew the sun was in me. The sun is a part of me. I'm a part of it. I'm a part of the sun. Sounds wild from the human point of view, but from there, I could feel it. I just consciously feel it in my body. So imagine if you could feel that in the body of your awareness. How would you go and go to McDonald's and order your coffee? You know, you couldn't.

So in that sense, the veil is enabling. And then what's important is, if you imagine the veil like locking someone into a position, and then you work within that position, and you refine, and then when you let the veil off, now you expand back out because you did all this work at a limited place. Like, maybe if you wore a 100-pound coat, you put the coat on, now you got to walk around for a whole lifetime with this 100-pound coat. You learn how to walk with 100 pounds on you. And then when you take it off, "Ah, the 100 pounds aren't native to me." But you retain the ability to walk that you developed. You retain strength.

Host: The strength and the skill that you have. Yeah, a lot of people have heard that analogy a lot of times, like it's a big, thick coat, and just like piled on and piled on and piled on. It's very dense, and it's hard to move. And it's that kind of world.
Well, you obviously know firsthand, have experience of everything you just said, would be very difficult to deal with. How do you deal with the knowledge that you have in this physical experience?

Christian: Yeah, so I don't consider myself special. Like I said, I'm still very much veiled. In my own walk, I really seek to fully accept the limitations that I experience and to meet fear if and when it arises. I've done a lot of that. In fact, this pre-birth memory could only return to me after I processed a lot of fear that I had—post-traumatic stress disorder time period after this trauma that occurred at 22, where I really healed a lot of that fear. That was very important for me to do. So, but it's too big to really even do in one lifetime. You know, it's a very deep process.

So I seek to allow whatever is in this moment, whatever that means, and to fully experience life here in whatever way I can. It is difficult to be this limited. You can be so, but also, I am the one who decides if it's difficult, you know? The limitations are just limitations. Sure, they may be so extreme, but I seek to allow them and to experience them. I know that sounds vague, perhaps, but that is what this life is, you know, for me. I do very much look forward to returning. I'm not saying I'm asking to pass. In fact, I'm very careful not to put energy in that direction. I don't want to inadvertently push myself in that direction. I want to fully use this life if I can, you know, every day. But when it's over, it will be wonderful.

Host: So then, with the concept of past lives and that we do this again and again until we work on things, what is karma? And what is the idea of karma play into this? Because a lot of people think karma is like, you know, you hurt somebody now, you have to—it's a punishment, you have to deal with it in another life. From my understanding, from talking to different people, it's a choice to work it out. Like, if I harmed you in this life, Christian, and I do my life review, I'm like, "Man, that's something I got to really work on." You want to add that extra level of difficulty in the game the next time around so you can work through that, so you can continue your evolution. So it's a true choice as opposed to a punishment. Is that how you see it as well?

Christian: Absolutely. Yeah, it's absolutely a choice. So karma is what we could just say cause and effect. Basically, you are who you are. That's the simplest way to put karma. You know, if you are a person who's relied on fear and ego and hurt others, then that's who you are. And so then when you get to the other side, and you see the effect you had on others, it's not that there's this like judgment, like, "Oh, you hurt this person. Next, you know, you see who you are." Like, you see very clearly, "Oh, I hurt that person because I have fear," they say, or "Because I have not yet integrated a certain kind of experience." You see who you are, and so then out of your own, it's your own choice to say, "You know, I'd really like to integrate that and grow through that because I see the benefit of doing that." And it's with you. There's like this energetic because you are who you are. Who you are remains with you until you deal with it.

So you might say, "Okay, so you know how we just were talking about how everything is happening in the one now? Okay, processing fear happens in the one now, too. So let's say that you had an experience when you were four years old, and you locked it away because it was so painful. Maybe you were sexually abused, maybe you were beaten, maybe it was just something simple, like somebody called you a name, and you locked—you really latched onto that and lost your sense of self-worth, whatever it is. The fear that is the rejection, the willingness to reject a certain feeling and not process it, is still there. If you allow in this moment that to arise, and you feel it now, at whatever age—27, 38, 91—doesn't matter, then you are meeting the same energy in the one now, even if it was something that seemed to have been too difficult or too big because we locked things away because they're too big. This fear is too big. This trauma is too big. I can't possibly look at that.

There's no way it's gonna destroy me if I look at it." That's how it feels. That's how it felt with my fear. My trauma that I experienced in China, I had post-traumatic stress. It was so deep, it was so terrible, I couldn't even look at it. I had dissociated from myself even to escape this fear that was so big, it felt like it would destroy me. Our fear will not destroy us. We are bigger. We are deeper. The consciousness is deeper than the deepest fear. But we need to be willing to allow it and feel it in this moment. And when we do it in this moment, you see that heals through all the moments. And then you don't have to experience it anymore, actually.

So you don't go into it because you're trying to get rid of it. You allow and accept it and fully feel it to heal it, feel it to process it. And when you do that, now you've done that within all the nows. You see, including the other lives that you may be living. You know, that very moment when you decide how you meet a difficult vibration is the key. It's very empowering. You know, we tend to get overwhelmed by, "Oh, mine, I have all these years of sludge. How do I deal with all that?" You just meet this moment. This moment has the power.

It's very—that's a very powerful idea. Without question. I have to ask you this, though, because this is something that I get all the time as well. When you say, "Oh, you hurt somebody in this life," well, people will always bring up, "Well, how about Hitler? He murdered 6 million, 10 million people, or, you know, in war, or, you know, mass killers or whatever. These kinds of—there's just extreme versions of calling someone a name. Yeah, killing 9 million people."

We draw a line somewhere in between those two things.
There's a line, there's a line somewhere. I tend to—
Right, in our mind. So you're like, you know, that's when the whole concept of hell and you have to be eternally damned comes in. Like, so what do you—can you explain to everybody how you process, as a soul, that you are Genghis Khan?

Okay, so, yeah, yeah. So first of all, when you process from the other side, you see exactly who you are. And even their wisdom is not automatic. You still have to decide what you're going to do with it. If you caused huge amounts of damage, then that's the person that you were. You're capable of causing huge amounts of damage. You then will decide what to do with that. I think it's very important in the meantime to not draw a huge distinction between levels of fear. And I know that levels of scope, consequence, earthly consequence may vary significantly.

But there is not a very significant difference between my fear, your fear, or the fear in Adolf Hitler that led to his ego that killed millions of people. I know the scope may be extremely different, but fear is fear. And our own fear is what we're here to process, not Adolf Hitler's fear. Right? We need to meet our own fear. We're very quick to look at everybody else now—X times X, external world—and to judge and to quickly turn a blind eye to our own weakness, our own fear. That's what the ego does. "Don't look at that. Don't look at what your own issues are.

That's too hard. It's easier to look out here." We regain some power by judging or whatever else. But we're here to meet our own fear and to grow in love in our own way, even if it's very small. When we do that, even with a fear that may not have a huge scope on the outside, we are helping the collective consciousness of humanity to heal. You know, we're giving permission to everybody else in the pond to meet their fear. And that can very much heal the world, not only externally but in each of us, which is where it starts. You know, consciousness is first. The product of what it decides to do is second.

So, from the perspective of the soul, someone like Genghis Khan—it's hard to say from this perspective of the human perspective—but someone like Genghis Khan, who murdered and hurt so many people in his lifetime, he—without him, those souls wouldn't have had the opportunity to experience what they experienced, is what you're trying to say.
Well, for some, for some would have—for some who would have experienced some challenge that might have been beneficial for them in some way, shape. However, this is not about, "Oh, let's go cause some pain because it's beneficial."

Please, yeah, please, everyone listening, please, at least on—we're not saying that.
When we choose our contexts, we're loving beings. We're beings of love. That's what we are. And we seek to express and actualize that through even very difficult contexts. That's what we seek to do. Now, are we unconditionally loved, even if we kill a million people? We are. I'm not saying it's okay to kill a million people. We should not—that is not the way of love. That is not what we're called to do. But the true justice—we want justice. The ego says, "There must be justice. Show me the justice." The true justice is that even Hitler is loved.

It makes me emotional because we live in a world where so many people are hurt, and we just want to evoke vengeance on each other. I just watched a near-death experience on your channel—I'm sorry, I forget her name—she had been raped, and she decided, by her intuitive guidance, to not press charges. It was her decision against the person, and he found her later in life and said it ate him alive. And he ended up becoming a police officer and helping many other people to prevent that kind of circumstance because she had not gone ahead and brought the justice system down on him. You know, she made that system decision intuitively. I cried when I heard that because she tried to make the loving decision even though she was the victim. And our world just hurts for the even—even the perpetrators to be loved. Love is the answer. You know, that is the ultimate healing power. And when we get to the other side, we know it. Imagine how you feel if you knew you hurt 1000 people, and you're still loved. Imagine that.

And it's a difficult minefield we're talking about because we're talking about two different very different perspectives: the spiritual perspective versus the physical perspective. And I know people listening to this might have difficulties hearing things like this. But I understand your point of view. I understand your point of view 100%. Look, Jesus said it. Buddha said it. I mean, there's so many spiritual masters who said, you know, "When you were the first—you know, who was without sin, throw the first stone," and things like that. Like, we all go through things, some more extreme than others.
But let me just make one quick comment that I love. Love is love. Love is unconditional love. If there's a message that is less than that, it's not the ultimate truth. But meanwhile, unconditional love is also very wise. And the system of karma that exists is built within that wisdom. So there is not such a thing as—somewhat so—even though we are simultaneously completely unconditionally loved, even though that is true, we never escape who we are. There's not one thought, there's not one action that doesn't have its—I don't want to use the word justice, but its balance. It's balanced. We are fully responsible for every single thing we have done, everything. And so there, I'm just saying that that system of true balance takes place within and is fully transcended by unconditional love and unfathomable wisdom.

My friend, I'm gonna ask you a few questions I ask all my guests. What is your definition of living a good life?
Living a good life? Living a life that is in alignment with the love and peace and joy and freedom of our true nature in the physical.

What is your definition of God?
There are no words that can just ascribe God. The living, loving, conscious, sentient foundation of all being who knows us and the other ocean—we are drops in the mighty ocean of love. The Rumi quote, "You're not just a drop in the ocean. You are the mighty ocean in the drop." That's amazing. That's beautiful. And that ocean is what we would call God.

And what is the ultimate purpose of life?
Love. Love is the ultimate purpose of life. And it means so many things. Like, we tend to think love means the romantic love or the puppy dog love or the parent's love. Real life—love with a capital L—and all the things that can mean: living in joy and freedom and just doing it how we can, even here in this cold, airless Mount Everest context.

And where can people find out more about you and the work that you're doing, sir?
Yeah, so I have a website, awalkinthephysical.com. The book is available for free on the website through a link down. It's also on Amazon, and I also recorded the audible audiobook last December. And feel free to reach out to me by email. I get a lot of emails, so I apologize if I can't respond, but I do try to respond to everybody I can. It's awalkinthephysical@gmail.com.

And do you have any final words for our audience?
Yeah, the last thing I'll say is, whoever you are listening today, thank you for being human. And you are not just the human story. You are you—like, the you that feels like you to you, the free, total, full of life and love, authentic you is who you are. Please don't forget that. We get wrapped up in these deep, rich stories. I know it's very intense, like, you know, we gotta go to work and pay the bills and deal with the illnesses and deal with the relationships. I know it's rich, but who you are transcends all of that. And then who you really are, there is absolutely nothing to fear. That is just such an important message that we need to share with each other. That I mean—need to, but it's beneficial to share with each other.

Christian, I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your journey with us. And I hope this helps somebody out there listening right now. And thank you for your bravery and thank you for all the work you're doing for humanity as well, my friend. I appreciate you.
Thank you as well, Alex. It's a great honor to be on. Thank you.

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