How to Let Go Of Your Fear with Christian Sundberg

It's just known there's nothing to fear. And that's one of the reasons why, when we're on the other side choosing to come to do some incredible things here, we know who we really are. We know we are immortal beings. We really are. It's not just in our religious or spiritual thing—it's just what we are. And when we know that, there's nothing to fear. Fear can only happen when we buy into the illusion of the separation and the resultant beliefs and labels that we put on the experience after that illusion has been taken on.

Welcome to the "I Don't Believe in Astrology" podcast, the podcast dedicated to conscious souls looking to change the world. Astrologer by day, climate activist by night—here is your host, Deborah Silverman.

Deborah Silverman: So, welcome to the Deborah Silverman "I Don't Believe in Astrology" podcast. I just think the name is so funny. It makes me happy. And I'm imagining, having heard that you've never had your chart done before, is that true?

Christian Sundberg: Yes, that's true.

Deborah: And have you an opinion about astrology? Have you, one way or the other, had a thought process about it?

Christian: I don't have a deep opinion in either direction. I'm open to it, but I don't pay particular attention to it.

Deborah: Yeah, me neither. Just kidding. Just kidding. Okay, so I'm just going to start by saying that Christian is a double Aries. He probably didn't know that, with Moon in Virgo, which we'll go more into detail, but you don't need to know astrology to understand this conversation. So, let me just begin by... I want to say this to you—this is very important. Upon my watching many of your interviews, my life changed. And I'm sure people tell you this, but I want to specifically address this. I'm also a psychotherapist, as well as being an astrologer, so I work a lot with people psychologically.

And what I see in the unconscious of our collective zeitgeist is the distaste for being human. While people can't speak to that directly because it's blasphemy in a funny way—it's inappropriate to speak to it—it lives inside all of us with a resistance or a lack of commitment or ambivalence. It shows up in many forms where the human experience has this underbelly that you can't say out loud, which is, "This is the strangest planet." Beautiful. I give voice to it. And what you did for me was... it's been with me since I was very young because, unlike many of us but similar to you and I, I also have had direct encounters with the parts of myself that exist beyond this physical place.

So, I came in with that, and as a result, I have suffered throughout my whole life with this one line: "I just want to go home. I just want to go home." And when I caught myself saying it so many times as a young person, I caught myself during an eclipse about seven years ago, and I was like, "Deborah, we're not saying that anymore. You're here. Unpack." And what your sessions did, listening to you, is you validated that feeling I was living with secretly, but more importantly, you had me unpack. Excellent. I really want to speak to that.

So, for those of you listening, this could sound a little abstract. And this man is very grounded. He has three planets in Virgo. We're going to talk about practicality. He's a project manager for a nuclear... can you tell us what you do in your day job?

Christian: Yeah, so previously—for now, I have a new job—for the last nine months, I've been a project manager for an insurance company, managing a data migration project. But before that, I spent 16 years working for a nuclear valve manufacturer as a project manager for nuclear valve manufacturing projects.

Deborah: Now, if that's not Earth, I don't know what is. So, Earth—very Earth. So, I want you to know that he—and you'll see this very quickly—that in his chart, there is an ample amount. You have four planets in Earth. There are four elements in our system, and one of your primary ones is fire. So, that's the enthusiasm with which you carry this memory. So, we're going to repeat the story. I'm going to encourage you all to go watch his earlier podcast and get his book, which is called A Walk in the Physical, which I purchased. It's going to assist you. But today, what I really want to do is start with the classical favorite question of, "You were a traditionally normal human." Is that even true? Or none of us are humans?

Christian: That's a good point.

Deborah: But until your Saturn return—it was 29, 30—is that when the door went off? When the lights came on?

Christian: So, yeah, I was at the age of 30 when I began to go through my awakening, and the pre-birth memory began to return. My body is 42 right now, so about 12 years ago.

Deborah: So, let me just start with—in astrology, at the age between 28 and 30, there's something called Saturn return, which you've probably never heard of.

Christian: No.

Deborah: So, Saturn return happens every 29 to 30 years. I'm just going to show you quickly before we dive in. So, this is what a chart looks like. This is literally at the moment of your birth—where were the planets? Here's your birth date, the time, and the place. And this is literally here was the sun because you were born right at sunrise. Here's the sun coming up over the horizon. Here's the moon—tells me what sign it's in. And here's Saturn. This is the planet in astrology that describes destiny.

And at 28 years old—so it goes like this—you were born with it. Saturn was here. It took 28 to 30 years to go all the way around the heavens and come back to where you were born. At 30 years old, it returns, and this is called Saturn return in astrology. It's the activation of our purpose.

So, I just found that astounding that you're... so, I'm going to leave that for just a minute. I want to show my astrology audience here is his sun in Aries. He's also Aries rising because he's born right at dawn, so the sun was just rising. That makes a double Aries. And he has four planets in Earth, which is that project manager detail. He's got the detail guide. Okay, I'm going to leave that for a moment.

Now, if you would, I'm going to hand the mic to you. You're 30 years old, and what is the instigating? What's the activation that happened? How did this go from not knowing much about spirituality to suddenly having a direct experience with the other side?

Christian: Yeah, no, that's a great question. So, before I comment on it, I'll just disclaim, as I do whenever I share this, that words cannot do justice to these topics. I think most of your listeners are probably aware of this, but it is really important that we identify that human language is very limited. It is symbols.

Words are symbols of our local world and based in our local world's assumptions, whereas our true nature fully transcends the context of Earth. So, I just have to say that upfront because the language is like so crude. It's all we got right now while we're sharing physically. It's actually not all we have. We have non-physical exchanges all the time, but audibly, we have to throw words around, and they're very limited and limiting.

Deborah: And can I just say one thing? You have only one planet in air. So, in astrology, there's water, air, Earth, and fire. Water is our sensitivity—you've got plenty of that. Earth is our practicality—Mr. Project Manager. And fire is your enthusiasm. You have nothing in air, and air is words. So, your nature is to want to embody things and be the concrete example of it rather than this. But here you are on a podcast, and how many have you done of these?

Christian: Quite a few. I'm happy to share.

Deborah: Now, so you're right—words are not the highest level of our communication skills, but what's what we do down here. They're not that's what we do.

Christian: So, 12 years ago, my journey began because I was listening to the recordings of a consciousness explorer and physicist named Tom Campbell. And he made one statement in one video that just sent me in this little... I felt this little nudge to pay attention to, and it ended up sending me down this whole path. And the one sentence he happened to say was, "What you believe is not going to get you anywhere particularly important." And he meant you're not justified by your belief. And at the time, I thought I was because I had certain religious beliefs that I felt justified me, and I felt this little nudge inside like, "Why did that sting?" And I'm like, "Yeah, why did that sting? There must be a reason." So, I listened to his videos.

I bought his book. His book is a thousand-page book, and I opened it, and I'm thinking, "Man, am I going to read this?" Because this is very early, right? So, I was not familiar with this. And I opened up his book, and the first line of the preface is, "Yes, you need to take the time to read the preface and read this book." Because he knows it's so big. And his next sentence is something like, "You were raised in a culture which believes in quick gratification, but spiritual growth is not necessarily a fast, immediate gratification type process. You need to be willing to put in the time and energy." And I thought that was great. I was like, "Oh, I'm going to read this now."

So, I spent two years reading it, but more importantly, I began to meditate. And that was something he recommended from the start: "Go have your own experience. Find out yourself. Go search yourself. Investigate your own awareness itself—what your awareness is beneath thought, when you're not associated with the thinking. What is there? What's real?" And I began to do that just at first because it was relieving, you know? Like, it brought a sense of relief, and it felt good, and I was like, "Oh, that's nice. So, I'm going to keep doing this." And I did it for a few months. I would meditate for about maybe two 20-minute periods a day or one 30 or 40-minute period a day. Maybe I'd take one day off a week or something, but I stuck to it.

You know, I was interested, and he said, "You need to stick to it," and I was like, "Okay, I'll try this." Because I'm a very inquisitive, investigative type person, but I certainly didn't expect anything. I just continued it. And after about maybe four months or so, I had my first non-physical experience, which was extremely eye-opening. It was brief, but it was shockingly real, and it was not subtle.

Deborah: And what did you see?

Christian: So, I had an experience where it began as a dream, and in the dream, I was... this big tidal wave was going to come over and crush me. And so, in the dream, I said to myself, "Okay, you're going to die now. Let go of your body. You can leave your body." And when I did that, I suddenly shifted to a state of awareness where I was not dreaming.

I was fully alert and awake, but my body wasn't awake. But I was in the state where I was feeling these absolutely intense vibrations that were so intense, and it sounded like someone had parked a jet engine on either side of my head. And it was so loud, and the vibrations were so extreme, and I was stuck there for maybe 10 or 15 seconds or something, but it was terrifying. Like, it was not subtle. It was not like, "Oh, this is interesting." It was freaking shocking.

And when I woke up—when my body woke up—I leapt out of bed. I was sweating. I was freaked out. I was like, "What the hell was that?" Because it was so strong. It wasn't like a little thing, and it was so real. I was fully alert. I was fully there. I was totally conscious, but I couldn't... I didn't know what was happening. So, that was just the very first kind of brief glimmer. Since then, I've had out-of-body experiences, and I don't feel they're abnormal any longer. I don't necessarily try to go get them, but they happen.

Deborah: So, back up. So, that first occurrence happens. You're standing up, you're sweating, you're shocked.

Christian: Yeah.

Deborah: And then, so then I thought, "Well, there's something to this. I got to keep doing this. This is some... this is real. There's something going on here. I don't know what it is, but it's... that was very real. That was not just like, 'Oh, I had a dream and some kind of sensation in my brain.' It was like the body of my awareness was vibrating in a way that I had never experienced. It was so intense."

Deborah: It sounds like you entered your dream body, and it was put into an altered state. It was radically energetically shocked. I don't know how to label it, but all I knew is it was so real. It just prompted me like, "Keep going." So, I kept going, and I began to have other brief non-physical experiences at first. And I also began to have this pre-birth memory return to me. So, that's... that's usually people ask about that. How did the pre-birth memory... was it a dream state?

Christian: No, I was just awake, and I just realized I had memory. For me, I don't know how to describe it. It was very normal. It was like... it was no grand opening of the heavens or something. It was like... I don't even know what I was doing, but I was just doing some normal daily activity, and I realized I was thinking about and reviewing before I was born. And it was so normal. It was like... it was like the most normal thing. It was like the breakfast I had this morning or something like it was, but it was so real. It was so... very personal, very, very, very deep—like way deeper than a normal earthly memory.

Very ancient and yet happening right now, like I was there right now, but it was an ancient memory at the same time. And I realized, "Oh, that's what... that's why I... so, one of the main reasons I've come to Earth is to face and process a very deep fear." And I've done so much of that. I had done so much of that leading up to this. I really dealt with and processed a lot of this fear. And so, I noticed then, "Oh my gosh, like I planned this. Like, this is intentional.

I came here to do this on purpose." And then, as I had those realizations, they just slowly kept opening up to me over time—maybe over months or weeks or months, something like that. I don't know. And at first, it was just super interesting, but I also had the intuitive sense, and because I had been meditating, I had a certain relationship with my own thoughts. And so, I was able to kind of have a hands-off recognition when the stuff arose. And every once in a while, I get super curious, and I try to like ping into something and see if there was more information there. And sometimes I get all this information. Sometimes I get this kind of a block like, "No, you don't need to know about that right now." And it's like, "Okay."

Deborah: What I remember of your story was... this is the part that I've repeated to many people—that you had an encounter before you got here with a being who was super shiny and stood out, and you encountered him by... so, can you speak to that story?

Christian: Yeah, so long, long, long ago, before I was ever physical, before I had any physical incarnations, I remember coming across a being who had been physical. And the quality of his nature, his essence—this is really hard to describe—the body of his living light, his awareness, was so powerful and so rich and so full of joy and power and love and freedom. And I could feel it, and I was so inspired by the quality of this being.

And I said, "How did you do that? What did you possibly do to become this? And do you feel this depth of joy and freedom that I feel you feel?" And he shared with me, and I kind of like went into it and felt the depths of it, and I was just... I couldn't believe it. I was like, "Oh my gosh, that's amazing."

And he shared that he had been physical, and he shared one experience in particular in which he had lived a very difficult physical experience. He had suffered some kind of pain or ailment that lasted for a number of years, but the way that he met that experience, the way that he refined through it—it's very hard to describe—was incredible. And I said, "I want to do that. I'm going to do that. I want to do that."

Deborah: And did he say to you he'd been on Earth?

Christian: I don't have a specific memory of a planet or a name or anything like that. I just know that he had been a physical... I knew that it was some kind of intelligent physical... I guess you would call it relatively advanced. You know, it was a conscious physical being of some kind. I don't even know if it was human.

It certainly could have been human, but I don't actually know. But I remember feeling some of the pain that he had experienced, and I asked him, "Were you healed?" You know, because I felt how deeply he had been wounded and damaged in this physical life. And he said, "Yes."

And I felt the depth of the healing, and I felt like... like the depth to which we are wounded must be healed. Like, there is no... like, the quality of what we are is so unconditionally loving and so full of vibrance and life that when we suffer a deep... maybe a gouge or a canyon here, that canyon can only be filled again. So, I felt that in him, and it was like, "Oh my goodness." Now, that doesn't mean he was unchanged. You know, the experience affected him, and he grew from it.

He evolved. He became more, but he was completely healed. And I was so inspired. I was like, "I want to do that." And he said, "Well, go talk to your guides." So, I did.

Deborah: And didn't he say something like, "It's not that easy. Like, everyone wants to go there, but it's not such an easy..."?

Christian: Yeah, there was kind of a playful comment like, "Yeah, that's what they all say." Like, "And I... but like almost like, 'No, don't bother me with that.'" Like, not negative, but like, "No, no, no, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't know how hard this is." And I was persistent. I said, "No, I really want to do this." And he communicated, "Well, it's hard in a way that you just don't know. Like, it's difficult in a way you can't even conceive of right now. It's really, really difficult." Which now I understand, you know, as a human. I get it.

Deborah: Just pause for a minute. Yes, so the human condition without the awareness. And I love how you describe the long fall from where that occurred back here at the ranch and the density of the gravitational pull here and how life is so unbelievably stubborn and never stops showing up with the hardships back down here at the ranch. So, can you describe that distinction when you talked about the fall?

Christian: Yeah, the veil—the acceptance of the veil. So, the way I experienced it was as I accepted the veil, which is just the word we use for the constraints in consciousness that go along with being incarnated in having a physical body. As I accepted those constraints, what I experienced was a profound plummeting of the vibration of my being. So, like, if you imagine the body of your awareness—like, what you think is your body right now—it's actually not just your body. It's your aliveness that you're feeling—your aliveness.

Imagine that being connected to everything and being full of everything and just so full of joy and being connected to all knowing. And then going and plummeting down, down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower into a state where that knowing is cut off. The history is gone. Like, everything feels like it gets erased or shut off, turned off, closed off. And it feels like going down into a place that is like arriving to the vacuum of space. That's just a metaphor, but what I mean is it's just empty. It's dark. It's empty. There's no heat, but also so dense.

Like, being bodily was such a low vibration, dense experience by comparison. It would... I mean, in English, the colloquial way to put it was, "It was ridiculous." Do you know what I mean? Like, the state of being that I arrived to... I mean, I make jokes of it now, but it was... it was ridiculously low vibration to be in that state. And so, I was like, "I'm not okay with this. I'm not going to tolerate this. There's no way." So, I tried to fight my way out. And in this current life, I was reassured mightily because I had had a previous incarnation experience where I did reject the life, and it ended up killing the fetus, and I returned to the other side. But this time...

Deborah: Stop right there. This is very, very important.

Christian: Yeah.

Deborah: This really touched me for all the women in the world that I've worked with with miscarriages—when the fetus comes in, and spirit has made a decision to incarnate in some fashion. Yeah, and then there's the decision that somehow your soulmate... can you describe... like, you aborted ship. Like, you were not interested.

Christian: Yeah, so... okay, so I want to be sensitive to it because this is extremely personal and powerful. But you know, when I got... when I arrived, the simplest way to put it is I was overcome by fear because I wasn't myself anymore. I wasn't the all of me. I felt like I lost all that I am—like, all the eons of knowledge and joy. And I felt like I lost it all. And I was like, "I am... and plus, the vibration was so low. It's just like... it was ridiculous. It was like I don't know... being crammed into a tuna can or something." I'm like, "I am not doing... there's no way I'm putting up with this."

So, in that case, I mustered my might. I'm like, "I know I'm a powerful being." I pulled my might up, and I smoked the veil. I fought my way out. I'm like, "Uh-uh, not doing this." And I effectively... I was effective at doing that. I basically broke free, but I immediately had a life review—like a near-death experience—just describe... for that very short life. And I saw because I had killed the fetus by my rejecting the veil, the body had died. I had... I had cut... I don't know... I don't want to use the word "connection," but I had somehow... what I had done had interrupted the process. Right?

Yeah, some... maybe like a severing or something. I mean, it didn't feel like a severing. It felt more like me fighting my way out of a cloak. But in doing that, it had... you know, it killed the fetus. So, I had a life review, and I saw how my fear—because it was about my fear—like, I acted from fear. It was my choice. I did that even though I was only just there and even though I hadn't even been born yet. And there was no teaching or upbringing or anything like that. I still made that choice.

And so, I saw how my fear affected the poor mother and not only the poor mother but hundreds of other people whose lives were made more difficult because of the grief I heaped on the mother and the family, but primarily the mother. The feeling was really like... I... it was like loading weight onto her shoulders. And I felt... I was like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that." But now, from that side, you also know all as well. Like, you can see it very clearly. There's... it's okay.

There's nothing wrong, truly. But I also could just very objectively see like, "Oh, I have a lot of fear." Oh, because I had all these great intentions, but yet I had only caused more difficulty for the players in the game that I really respected so much. You know, I really respected these beings who were being human, and I couldn't believe that I had only made their journey more difficult.

Deborah: And then, with your guidance from your guides, you decided to reincarnate or come back in.

Christian: Yeah, I did. I knew I wanted to. I still had the same intention to re-engage the certain fear. So, I was brought this life as a possibility, and I reviewed it, and it was good. It wasn't as perfect as the first one would have been, actually, but it was good enough. It was a pretty good match with you.

Deborah: So, they show you. They give you a clue about what you're about to encounter.

Christian: Oh, yeah, no, not just a clue. It's like... like, they brought me... if you imagine like a life package or life packet—not literally like a package, but if it's like bringing it out of a database or something—and then, "What do you think about this?" And then I reviewed it. I reviewed millions and millions and millions of possibilities of what could transpire and how it would actually feel to be me in this life. It was more about... like, on Earth, we like to talk about events and time and place.

You know, we're always like, "When did what happen and where?" That's how we communicate here. But from the point of view that was secondary, what was primary was, "What would it be like to be me experiencing this? Like, what would the actual experience be like?" And there were all these different avenues. It was like if you laid a tree on its side and started at the thick end and worked your way out to the branches. And it was like some were more probable, and some were less probable, and I could perceive all of them.

Deborah: Do you think this is a universal truth that the humans have the capacity to witness or choose their circumstance?

Christian: Well, it's not the humans. Human is the... not the human—the soul. Sorry, that whatever is that... is that actually real in your mind?

Deborah: Yeah.

Christian: Well, so, okay, so the soul is... yes, because the soul is sovereign. So, what I mean is there is... the soul is a part of all that is—part of source. So, you are a part of source. So, there isn't actually like a deeper authority that can make you have to do something. You know what I mean?

So, the only way to be incarnated is to surrender yourself to it—to give over your power, so to speak. And I don't like those words—to allow yourself to be constrained is probably a better way to put it—so that you can have a very specific, well-defined, rigorous experience.

And so, because that's a choice, certainly the spirit, the soul, wants to know. It wants to see what it's signing up for. It's not blind. That's at least that's what I experienced. I mean, I certainly can't speak for everybody, but for me, it was absolutely well-informed. I asked questions about the life. I asked about planning certain things. Yeah, it was a very thorough review.

And I was so excited. I mean, like, if I had to just review... if I had to just summarize the whole review in one word, it was excitement—even though I knew that it was very likely that in my early 20s, I would be crushed and traumatized by a trauma, and I would... it would overcome me.

Deborah: The illness that you had.

Christian: Yeah, I had an illness at the age of 22 that led to my opportunity to re-engage this fear. I had post-traumatic stress for a number of years after this experience because of the fear. But at the time, then I... so, I then I... like, that I mean, when this happened when I was 22, of course, I had no awareness that this plan, of course. But at the time, pre-life, I was very excited.

And in fact, not only excited, I was so honored—so honored at being given the opportunity to play a human and to live a human life because human lives are so precious. Every one of them is like... like a winning lottery ticket in the context of the scope of all that is. Like, it's such an honor because it means that... how do I put this? Like, we have to be evolved to a certain degree to even be human.

Put it that way. Like, being human is rigorous. It's a challenge. It's a serious... you know, it's a very dense, detailed, high-bandwidth, high-capacity physical experience. And so, to be given the chance to be a human, it's like, "Wow, like, I'm honored." Like, because it means it's seen that there may be a great benefit to you because the system is very efficient. It's not like random, you know, throwing things around. It's like they can see. The guides are very wise. They have access to all the data.

Deborah: Hello, this is why astrology works because the design is so intricate and so unbelievably vast. So, what you're saying is the reason why there's eight billion people here is because everybody wants to be here and to have this encounter in the name of evolution, in the name of transformation. Can you help me understand why anybody would come to this crazy planet?

Christian: Yeah, well, I can't speak to astrology specifically. Like I said, I don't have much knowledge in that area. It's not of particular focus for me. But with regards to evolution... oh, yes. Okay, so this is really important. And it's like I really wish I could just tell everybody like... because this is so like... what we're doing here—the opportunity to come out into this place and to reach this level of engagement and to process it—like, to process experience here and to see if we can make loving choices, actualize love, and overcome fear because those are synonymous—is an incredible opportunity for expansion.

It'd be like... I've spent so many hours trying to think of a way to articulate this better, but I just can't. But if you take... this is just a metaphor... if you take source—like, imagine a sun or something over here—and then you're a piece of it. So, you're connected. Now, if you can go out to here or out to here or all maybe all the way out even out to here, and you can integrate that and process that and bring love to that and shine light through that... and when I say process, I mean integrate the experience, overcome your fear, really connect it with the dots, and really come to understand it at a being level—not just an intellectual level.

If you can do that, there is this profound expansion of being out to there. So, the further out we go, the deeper into contrast we go, the more the opportunity for growth. And that is why there is such a desire actually to take on lives that we could consider potentially very difficult. In fact, sometimes it's the guides who say to us, "No, no, no, that's too much. You're trying to do too much in one life. You're trying to sign up for too much. Just, you know..." So, there's kind of this... maybe optimal target you could say where we try to take on an experience that will challenge us and help us to grow but not so hard.

Deborah: I don't know. Well, here's one of my esoteric laws brought to you by Alice Bailey: "The bigger the spirit, the bigger the lesson." So, the spirits that are ambitious like you are—your chart as a double Aries gets so excited. It's not funny. Like, you're on fire. Your soul and your ego are both on fire. Your mind—your Mercury is in Pisces—the water element that meditates and dreams.

You have an incredibly strong capacity for your mental body to receive the impression from the other side. But I want to say to this—the people that are listening to this—they have a really hard life. They feel stuck. Something's not working. They can't do... their children's not well. They have health issues. They can't find their mate. They found too many mates. They have all... I'm a therapist, so I've heard all the stories. And what you're suggesting is echoing Alice Bailey that the bigger the lessons, the bigger the growth cycle.

Christian: Yeah, so the larger the contrast, the greater the opportunity for expansion through that contrast—if and as we can integrate it, meet it, shine love into it in all the things that love means. So, if someone is having a Christian life where they are really following the laws of the Bible, for example, and they're embodying that... that is a generative lifetime. Like, it doesn't matter what you do. It's the quality of love and fearlessness you embody.

Deborah: Exactly.

Christian: So, the form of the Earth—the forms, the objects, the ideas, the thoughts, the belief systems—the form is all secondary. It's local context, and consciousness, which precedes form, shines through the context. And what is that shining? It's intent. So, it wields choices. It makes choices.

So, we make choices in the context. It's a simple way to put it, but the... but so, what are we doing? We are refining our ability to wield an intent that is more in alignment with our true nature, which is love—which is total love, total freedom, total joy. And so, when we have an intent that is more in alignment with that in whatever context, we tend to expand. We tend to experience joy ourselves.

And where, on the other hand, where we buy into interpretations of things that are not in alignment with the truth of who we are, we experience fear. And that's a very low vibration experience. So, the whole context is actually neutral, even though there can be some very extreme things that happen. We always apply the meaning to the neutral context that's occurring. It's just that that neutral context on Earth can get very extreme in certain times—very extreme.

Deborah: So, can I ask you—in your own personal life, does this awareness that you have that frees you of getting captured by the density or by the heaviness or the circumstance because you know this is just polishing for the... you know, we're trying to finish or create awareness through our hardship—does that get to be applied in your story like changing jobs or dealing with your kids? Or how does that apply back at the ranch?

Christian: Yeah, I mean, I really try to apply it back at the ranch. And I'm not going to claim I'm some master or something. I... it's... I still get associated with the form too. You know, the more we focus into it and think about it, the more deeply wrapped in it we get. You know, the more we think the same thoughts, the more that becomes our reality.

The more we think about work, the more we are the worker. You know, the more we... whatever role we're feeling that we get deeply associated into that. So, sometimes, of course, it's difficult to retain that... you know, that living... like, to bridge that gap. But I do feel like bridging that gap is what I'm trying to do and what I'm here to do. I feel... I feel a little bit like... just one metaphor... I feel a little bit like I have one... it's the Grand Canyon vibrationally, and I have one toe on the other side and my foot on this side, and I'm really trying to bridge the gap because if I can do that, there's this integration that occurs. But it's not just about me. It's about all of us—the process that we're all going through to actualize love and integrate our experience here on Earth.

Deborah: I'm going to show you once again here. Let me just minimize this because I just did it twice. I wanted to see your chart so bad. I did it twice. Your life lesson is about practicality and being a perfectionist. Do you know that part of yourself?

Christian: Yes.

Deborah: And it gets obsessive. The details in your chart—if there's a doorway this lifetime that you would be tested upon, it would be that you get caught in wanting things to be just so, and when they're not, you wrestle with yourself to not ever recognize when there is enough as enough. Am I right or am I wrong?

Christian: I don't think that's that accurate actually in this case, but there is something related. Related to perfectionism is definitely a sense of... like, when I was younger, I felt like, "Well, there must be a better and a worse way to do everything."

And I did constantly seek to try to understand that and find that out. Like, I remember one day catching myself early in my awakening when I was becoming aware at how associated I was with thinking. I caught myself thinking, "What is the correct amount of laundry detergent to put in the cup?" And it's a simple question, you know? It's so... it's so simple, but I was like, "Why am I focused on that?" Because... and... and I figured... I mean, in my case, this is probably a tangent, maybe not worth going down, but I believed in form.

Okay, that's what we do here. We believe in the form. We believe the form is it. That's what failing. You know, we feel separated from each other. We think the world is the physical world is what we got. That's what we got. So, we try to take these larger feelings and like impose them into this... this non-fundamentally real system, and it's not necessary. And it's not necessary.

Deborah: That was not tangential. So, I called it the perfectionist. What you're talking about is the perfected form becoming a little obsessed when you were young and catching it and realizing that you have three planets in Virgo, and the measuring of detergent is something that a Virgo could get completely lost in unless... and this is what I want to adjust—what you have altered to allow yourself to keep that big picture in focus because clearly your chart is prone to details.

But you have this... I just want to share one more little small detail here. You have this wonderful opposition. So, your Mercury in Pisces—the visionary—it's right opposite all the Virgo details. So, you dance between being able to go to the other side, see the spiritual overview, and then come back at the ranch and translate it into details for us here on this podcast. So, you have this wonderful bridge between, "I know the other side, but I'm not letting go of my big toast standing here in the practical world."

Christian: Yeah, there's one example I can bring up that speaks to that. So, when I was younger, I was focused on... in this example, getting a good GPA back in college. And I did very well. I got straight A's because I worked my butt off, and I thought it was very important. I subsequently discovered it wasn't very important. You know, that it never made a significant difference in my professional life.

But more than that, when I began to go through this awakening process, I reached this very humbling discovery moment. And I don't want to misarticulate this, but this is important. I discovered that my knowledge didn't mean anything. Like, what I mean is all that I had achieved in intellectual space on Earth meant nothing. Almost not nothing because the process of achieving it is experientially meaningful, but it's not meaningful unto itself. The knowledge is all... like, the system already has all knowing. What we're here to do is to become love.

That process is not like... like, when I used schooling, I didn't recognize it at the time, but I was very afraid. You know, "I have to get a good job. I'm not going to have enough money. I have to differentiate myself." But more than that, I had... I now understand self-worth images that I didn't perceive at the time. And so, I told my ego did what the ego does, and it says, "Look, you have worth because look, you got a 4.0. See, now you have worth." It's like, "I prove it to you. You proved it to yourself. Here's your worth."

Deborah: One of the steps we go through, I feel, in discovering what is real is all those ego stories that we thought proved us to ourselves. They have to go too because that's not where our worth is derived. Our worth is not derived in the GPA or the money or the position or the attractiveness or our health or what we've been able to do for someone else in some specific way. It's definitely not in possessions. You know what I mean? Like, none of that matters.

What matters is the quality of our being. And you have to throw away so much of the old toys that made you feel better in your own mind and in your own ego in order to reach that quality of being. You know, like, I'll have another example of that because this is one that was very difficult for me at the time. I was raised in a Lutheran setting, so for a long time, I had Lutheran Christian beliefs. It was very difficult for me to recognize that I was justifying myself again—another simple pattern of the ego. "Look, you have value because look, now that you believe that, when you believe the certain thing, you have value." I believed that that was uplifting for me.

You have to be able to recognize, "Oh my gosh, like, my value isn't even derived from that." Like, what I mean is our value is intrinsic. It comes with the substance of being. We are a part of the ocean of all that is, and all that is is wonderful and beautiful. You are an irreplaceable, precious drop in the ocean. You cannot be replaced. You are precious. You are beautiful and loving and full of love and loved and adored. And that is absolutely true no matter what forms you play with on Earth and no matter what games you play with yourself to try to convince yourself of it through ego process.

Deborah: So, in other words, if someone is wealthy, if someone is poor, if someone is fat, if someone is thin, if someone is successful, someone's famous, if someone... this is all just outworkings of the ego in order for us to remember who we really are.

Christian: Oh, well, I just mean that the ego uses all of those things to try to fill the gap. You know, now, because we feel afraid, we get here, and we're like, "Oh my gosh, there's a huge problem." See, we may not be able to intellectually identify, but when we get to the human condition, now there's a big problem because now I don't feel connected to everything. I don't feel all powerful. I don't feel the active love source. What the hell is going on? It's a huge problem.

And so, as we grow, it kind of becomes even more of a problem because we get so deeply wrapped in the stories of Earth and in all the associations. And our parents say, "Hey, you do well in school. There's your value." You know, "You perform a certain way. There's your value. Get married and have kids, or you don't have value." You know, whatever it is, we really buy into that. And our ego is trying all the time to lift up whatever it can. "How about this? You have value now.

How about this?" And unfortunately, for many people, it can take harmful forms too, of course. "Look, you can harm the person next to you, so you're powerful." That, of course, is not the way, but the ego will do it because we're doing anything we can to try to fill this gaping hole that now is there because of this separation experience of separation, which is non-native to who we really are.

We are not actually separate from each other. We're not. I know it looks that way. It's very persistent and consistent. I know. I mean, it's so strange. I go into the office. I look around. Everyone is, you know, dressed nicely, doing their professional, putting on the face, speaking to each other. No one knows that we're connected. No one knows that we're one with each other. We're loving brothers and sisters. We're playing this deep game.

Deborah: And what's the part about this game? Here's one of the questions I ask everybody on my podcast. I wish that people would fill in the blank. What would Christian say if I said to you, "I wish people would..."?

Christian: I wish people would know who they truly are.

Deborah: I was going to say, "Take the actions to work toward knowing who you really are." But it's not like there's... we like to think in terms of action and result, and it gets very confusing if we try to immediately even if we say, "Meditate to get this result." Meditation is a wonderful path. It's not like an action and a result.

But anyway, I would wish that everybody would find who they really are. I mean, really, there's only two problems happening on Earth. Like, there's only two issues. Every single other issue arises from these two things: one, we're ignorant of who we really are—like, we just don't know—and two, we have fear. That's it. Every single thing that we're dealing with that's negative arises out in one form or another out of those two—fear giving rise to ego and all the patterns that the ego does.

Deborah: I have a question. I have a really important question because this is... as an astrologer, you can imagine I spent a lot of my life being in the observer, looking at the human patterns, and understanding the psychology of why we do what we do. I just want to know what they were thinking when they implemented so much ignorance and the disconnect from the source. Like, what's the exercise here that would be conducive because it doesn't seem like it's working?

Christian: Oh, it's working. So, I don't mean to be contrarian. It's working. So, it's not they. It's us. Like, it's not some other being, some other thing that's inflicting this upon us. Here we are afflicted. No, we got on the roller coaster. The roller coaster is really fast. We're the ones who got on and strapped in, even if we don't remember. And I know that's so hard for so many. We have difficult lives. I know. It's a volunteer position. I give you that. No, 100% a choice to be here.

Deborah: My question is the design—the design of the human brain. Said the therapist to witness the self-sabotage and the lack of ability for some—not for all—to have an appetite for this conversation. Some people are on the edge of their seat right now going, "Relief. This is what happened to me when I met your work. Relief. Relief. I knew it. This is a precious gift being alive." And while my ego mind may resist it and my ego mind may interpret it based on what should be, my heart of hearts knows this is the highest road for me to evolve in the name of my family and the name of evolution itself. And please, use me. I think it's every day.

But back at the ranch, I see levels of consciousness, and I've worked with people from all over the world, and I see certain people who really don't have the capacity. And I say, I think to myself, if I had a little homeopathy dropper that I could just put under their tongue and give them the appetite to reduce all the noisy, addictive, violent, evil impulses. And I find it almost mean that they've mixed those people with us.

Christian: Yeah, okay. Two comments. First, the... what your question really is is why does the level of constraint have to be so high? Like, why are the limitations so extreme? That's really the first question. Okay, so to that comment, the only way I can comment on that is a metaphor. Why would you lift a heavier weight and not a lighter weight? You know, what's the value in that? Why lift 50 pounds when you could lift 10? Why would you do that? Well, because 50 pounds offers a counter pressure that 10 pounds doesn't.

And the level of constraint that we're here experiencing as human—and this and the experience of separation—is a tremendous level of constraint. It's a tremendous counter pressure. So, if we can make loving choices under this... I don't want to say duress. I was going to say duress, but under this level of limitation—because it doesn't have to be duress—but under this level of limitation, there is a profound expansion that occurs that can only occur here under this level of counter pressure. But the countercurrent is highly valuable.

Okay, to your second comment, you made a comment... you know, why... why insert those people? There's... I'm... there's not a distinction between you and I and those people because the fear that you and I have is the same as them. The fear that Hitler had and the fear that I have is very similar. It's not... like, what I mean is it's the problem is fear. And where there is fear, insanity always ensues.

Like, when we act from fear, we are insane. We're unconscious, and we damage each other in the world. And whether that's happening to a small degree or a large degree, it's important, but it's not really the fundamental distinction. Really, the issue is simply that we have fear. So, really, it's about us as beings applying ourselves into and through this very high constraint set. And sometimes it's too difficult for us, and the ego rises mightily throughout a lifetime to try to protect the self, and that happens. But it's okay. So, but... I think I'll stop there in case you'll fall off because there's a few ways that could go.

Deborah: Well, I think I really appreciate what you said. So, fear is at the source of all of the insanity.

Christian: I would agree.

Deborah: I do know we're all connected, and my mystery is... or I have this recurring complaint that when I get home, I'm afraid they're going to scream at me because I'm constantly... I'm constantly repeating, "Oh no, that's fine." What are they thinking when they put in place an unconscious mind that has no filter?

The kidneys and the liver can take out whatever body food I take in that's poisonous, but the thought process can come in to go hurt a child. And rather than be a guardian at my unconscious and say, "No, no, no, no," and put me down into time out, I can act on those impulses. And my curiosity is the design of the human body, which is so masterful, and the design of the human brain, which is so shaky, is so contrary that I want to talk to the creators. Me, I've been talking to myself for years. Deborah, what were you thinking when you allowed the unconscious mind to have impulses that are absolutely evil and let that continue without any governor?

Christian: Well, now I have a governor. I have a governor.

Deborah: Yeah.

Christian: So, it is still fear when those impulses come up because that's just ego. Ego is just a word we use for the part of ourselves that is struggling to find a solution and plug the hole, even if it's with fake filler. You know, stands for evading God's oneness. That's true, but it doesn't know it's evading God's oneness. It is just the portion of ourselves that is trying to assert and reclaim our own power. So, your question is a little bit like asking why does someone have to try to reclaim their own power? You know what I mean? Like, I'm just trying to point out that there's not really an enemy.

Deborah: I know. I know. The... now that's a really hard idea for the ego because the ego loves enemies. My goodness, if we can identify our enemies, now we got them labeled. Now I'm the good guy, and they're the bad guy, and now we're set because now I have established some power.

Christian: The... the all... there is no true enemy. The enemy is our own unevolvedness. So, where we have our own fear, that's the problem. But the good news is, though, we are not powerless to that enemy. We have the profound opportunity and ability to meet our own fear in whatever small way we can. And that may sound like a small thing. It's not. If we meet our own fear and we process our own crap and we own the way that we are rejecting reality—"How am I rejecting reality?

How am I hurting the person next to me? How am I prioritizing the self over the other?" You know, whatever. I ask this question all the time: "How can I be more loving? How can I open up my heart? How can I take the high road? How can I figure out my silly little ego's mind and tell her to take a break?" And I'm getting better at it as the years go by. This aging thing is really serving me. I am endlessly...

Deborah: It does that. I am endlessly... I personally suffer from the compassion that I have for those that cannot diminish their fear. And I am so curious by them. I find them fascinating, to tell the truth. I find Hitler fascinating. I've studied his chart at length. What part of the human psyche allows that kind of ego to be acceptable?

Christian: The psyche comes after the consciousness and its intent. It's built on it and in it over the course of a lifetime. So, that's why fear and ignorance are the real roots. It's only because of fear and ignorance that some structure needs to be built. It doesn't actually need to be. It's because we're yet unevolved such that when we get applied into this context and into this level of constraint, our fear is great. And where fear is great, we do all sorts of shenanigans.

Deborah: Do you feel like as a species, we are evolving and moving towards...?

Christian: Absolutely. Absolutely, we are.

Deborah: What's your evidence?

Christian: Yeah, so a couple of things. So, first of all, a few comments. First, in my pre-birth experience, I was aware that the human race is going through a transition—an awakening—and that the trajectory was towards awakening towards a higher vibration state. But it was also a very high friction period of time that my life would be occurring in. And that was just known. It wasn't like a big, interesting thing. It was just like very obvious. It's like... it's like acts in a play. Like, this is the act that we're in now. We're in act seven. I don't know. I'm making it up.

Whatever. We're in some act. This is the awakening act where we try to deal with all the gross, crude fear patterns that are in the collective consciousness and try to really process them, heal them, and we try to own our own crap and lift our vibration such that we don't know we're lifting our vibration, but we're integrating our experience such that love can more thoroughly shine through us. That's the first thing.

The second thing is the system is very efficient. So, what I mean is spirit is not inefficient. The universe is not inefficient. And while we as humans, since we have ego and we reject what we see around us very quickly, we don't like when something takes more than a day or a year or a lifetime because there's not a significant difference for there to be change.

Do you know what I mean? Like, it's all a small portion of time in relation to the breadth of who we really are. So, the ego is like, "No, I want change right now. I don't want to change tomorrow. I want to change right now. Where's my change?" You know, that's okay.

That also, by the way, is part of the problem though because that's fear. But anyway, so all I mean is this: the system is very efficient. And so, not only... like, the universe is built for this purpose of integrating experience. So, it's very good at giving us what we fear so that we can process it. But we also have an amazing amount of support. There are many non-physical beings, for instance, on the other side who come and help us and are with us and assist us and give us their nudges, their support, their love.

This is a system of love ultimately, even though we look around us and we look like we're in a love desert sometimes. The actual foundation behind the curtains—you know, the stage, you could say, the stage of the play—is made of love. And that love is very intelligent. So, even though we can't see with our very dense, limited human thinking minds because they only handle one small thing at a time—like, our human thoughts are like dense, clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk.

That's what we do all day long. From the perspective of spirit, it's much more efficient, much more thorough, much better vantage point. That whole system is working to facilitate our own individual growth. You know, we like to think about, "Oh, this is about humanity. This isn't so much about me. This is humanity's problem." Actually, it's about you. I'm sorry to say because you are part of humanity.

And so, when you face your own fear and meet your own crap, it's like a light bulb that goes on in the ocean and shines permission vibrationally to everyone else to do the same thing. So, when you face your own crap, you are actually fixing the problem without knowing it. You're actually encouraging those around you because you yourself are changing the temperature of the water.

You are your drop in the ocean. If you increase your drop's temperature, the ocean's temperature will increase not only because you're warmer in this crude metaphor but because you are also giving permission to and creating a vibrationally accepting environment for everyone else to do it too. And one awakened person is way more vibrationally impactful than many who are not awake. So, it is not a situation of hopelessness. Giving into hopelessness is kind of like a waste of time. I don't mean to make light of it, but it's not necessary. The whole framework is one of hope.

Deborah: So beautiful.

Christian: And I had a third comment, but...

Deborah: Okay, so hold on. I want to hear your third now. You go now.

Christian: The third comment was simply that you asked why... why do I say that we're increasing? And the third is simply that I'm vibrationally sensitive. I can feel non-physical energy, and I can feel like when I go into crowds now, the vibrational temperature is higher than 20 years ago. You know, so I don't know much about it. I'm not quick to put labels on it, but it's definitely happening. The vibrational temperature is higher.

Deborah: As in more loving, more aware?

Christian: Yeah, like, and a lot of the crap that we see on the surface—a lot of these old themes that we're dealing with, you know, racism and accepting people for who they are—these very basic ideas, I don't mean to make light of this because we have a major problem with this as a human race, but like accepting each other for who we are—for our sexuality, for our race, for our age, for our gender—these are very basic things to the spirit. We're all one. We of course love accepts each other.

We should be accepting each other. But anyway, we have a long history of not doing that. You know, we have a long history of us versus them thinking and ego patterns of superiority and elitism. And so, therefore, since those patterns are in the collective consciousness, now when the vibration increases, it begs for those to be refaced and integrated. So, you have experiences like political events where racism comes back up to be faced, and then you have a lot of people say, "You know what? This is not... why are we doing this?"

Deborah: And let me ask you a wild question. I recently had Dr. Steven Greer on my podcast. What are your thoughts about ETS?

Christian: Yeah, what is your question? Do aliens exist?

Deborah: Yeah.

Christian: Yeah, of course. Yeah, so the human race is just one of many. The universe is really, really big. I don't have much specific knowledge about that, but I'm aware the Earth is not the only planet we can incarnate on. And not only that, the whole... okay, so our physical universe is ridiculously huge—hundreds of billions of galaxies with hundreds of billions of stars each. I mean, it's just unfathomably huge.

And the Earth is only the tiniest, tiniest corner of that. And that whole thing—that whole universe—is just one tiny little speck of all that is. And then we ask, "Are there beings other than humans?" Of course, yes, there are beings other than humans. It's not really a big deal. Yes, there are, of course.

Humans are very precious. I mean, I really sensed the preciousness of the chance to be human. Like I said, it was like, "Wow, this is a happening place. This is a high-intensity, rubber-meets-the-road, important place where humanity is right now in this period in linear time." But yes, there are other races.

Deborah: And do you see the prospect, as an astrologer, and certainly in Dr. Steven Greer's work, that we are at this critical juncture? We are in this transition where love is being invited in, and fear is being diminished. And you are an optimist, I'm assuming, and that you're hopeful that we'll make it over this ecological terror because I've been doing lots of podcasts with the scientists who are not as positive as you are.

Christian: Yeah, well, yeah, I am very optimistic. So, but the thing is, the way that we tend to measure success as humans is different than true success. So, I'm just saying that because, you know, it's possible we could destroy the Earth and all die. That really wouldn't be that big of a deal. I don't think it's going to happen, but it's not really that... I know that sounds like, "Oh my gosh," but this... it's important.

It's precious, but it's also... we are not human. Like, you're you, and you're going to be here whether or not you're experiencing the human suit or not. It's like, you know, if we all took off our shirts, it's not really a big deal. You know, okay, now you're put on a different shirt. You're still you. You're just wearing a different shirt. It's kind of like that with physical experiences. It's okay. I don't think it's going to happen.

I'm just saying that like... there is a reality to the coral diminishing to the point of 85%. There's a reality to the ice melting. There's a reality to the humans in the war experience in Russia, in China. So, that's not to say we haven't always had these dramas. It's just there's a critical juncture right now with the ecosystems. And to your point, I'm with you. The sustaining of love will never be touched.

The choice of people waking up inside the dream continues at multiple levels. I just can't see them—the ability for us to speak a language, whether it's astrology or science or whatever the language you're using, to help facilitate the exercise of the mind's openness, willingness to use these faculties and polish them. My job is going to continue with or without a physical form or with or without Earth. It's so arrogant of us. How dare we think this is it? I mean, if this is it, I'm worried.

Christian: Yeah, it's not it. It's definitely not it. Everything you just mentioned is very important. The Earth is very important, and what we do with our choice-making is very important. Every decision, in fact, every thought is important.

So, I'm not taking away from that. Simultaneously, as I say, you're talking about the set of the stage. Like, it's important, but it's a play. It's a living play, but it's a play. So, I just think it's important to keep that in mind because we tend to feel threatened. See, this is the thing. We feel threatened when something that supports us or something we love is threatened or someone we love is threatened or our money is taken away or our health is taken away. We naturally—I'm not saying it's unnatural to do this—but we feel threatened.

But the reason we feel threatened is we are so identified with those forms when, in fact, we are not the forms. It's a little bit like when you wake up in the morning from sleeping, and you just had a dream. You look around, and you don't have to have someone convince you that this is the real world and that was just a dream. It's self-evident. It's just obvious. And you're able to think back and say, "Wow, that was just a dream. It was intense. It was very interesting." Now, this is kind of like that. It's like a dream. It's very real. It's a real experience.

The experience we're having here is real, but the form is a dream that is occurring on and in and within our consciousness itself. Even the body—it's not that you're in your body. It's that your body is an experience of form and sense data happening within you, within your awareness. And when the body is gone, all that happens is that just drops away. That sense data—like the data stream gets cut off. That's Tom Campbell's term—data stream. I love that term. It's like consciousness pre-exists. It receives a data stream. Your body dies—data stream gets shut off. That's it. You're still there. You're still totally there. You never went anywhere.

Deborah: Okay, I'm going to ask you a quick question I ask all of my interviewees. If there's something in this life that you wouldn't want to live without, what would that be? Or a couple of things that you just wouldn't not want to be without.

Christian: Boy, I can't name so many things. Tell me.

Deborah: Hmm.

Christian: I mean, what comes to mind immediately is breath and music and my loved ones, you know, and the ability to feel, the ability to move, and to think, and to play piano. You know, there's so many things. It's just like... but it's all form, but none of it's us either. You know, we can lose it. We could lose it too, but I love it. You know, I love the world. I love life. It's so obvious.

Deborah: If there was somebody that wasn't alive or alive that you could talk to and have a really good conversation with, who would it be? Someone who wasn't physically alive. It could be physical or not. If there was somebody that you could conjure up and say, "God, I'd really like to ask a few questions."

Christian: Or... um, it would probably be... this sounds silly, but I have a desire to meet Seth—the guy who was channeled through Jane Roberts back in the 80s. I just have this personal goal to meet Seth someday. So, maybe I'd say Seth. I also love Silver Birch. Silver Birch is another channeled being.

Deborah: I know exactly who that is. I would love to meet Silver Birch. And Pisces, you have invisible friends on the other side. I haven't interacted with them, but I know they're real.

Christian: Tell me.

Deborah: The last time that you cried.

Christian: Uh, probably a few weeks ago. Sometimes it's just poignant being human and experiencing the limitations of work stress and the body. You know, it's okay to cry. There's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong at all with any of our emotions, any of our feelings.

Deborah: So beautiful to cry. My goodness, it is all of it's beautiful.

Christian: Yeah.

Deborah: And what's the one question I should have asked you that I didn't ask you?

Christian: Oh, boy. Hmm. One question you didn't ask me that you should have asked me that would have created a really good... is there anything to fear?

Deborah: Good question.

Christian: No. And better—I don't mean to oversimplify it, but it is absolutely true. There is nothing to fear.

Deborah: That makes me want to cry. Like, if we know that, this other crap naturally resolves so much of it.

Christian: Yeah.

Deborah: That just shifted my heart. This is what happened, Christian, when I met your work. When you talked in the book about if you knew how beautiful it was on the other side, you would be so homesick, I like pulled out my yellow highlighter, circled it, cut it out, and then ate the piece of paper. I was like, "Did you literally do that?" No. Okay, but the point is that I... that sentence—"There's nothing to fear"—if I could integrate your words into my body and then into my heart and then into my soul... I've never heard someone say that, and I think secretly I've always known that. I lived through a very... like you, very, very traumatic experience throughout this lifetime. I've had more than once of murder and, you know, crazy things that I know were shown to me. I have not to the degree you do, but I have a very strong relationship with my guides, and I have since I was very young. And I've been given the gift of being able to, as an astrologer, share that information that comes from the higher realms. So, I facilitate people falling in love. What I've never heard or thought of before is how do I reduce your fear?

Christian: Yeah, um, rather than think of fear as something to be reduced, it's a mist that evaporates when we find the truth. Like, it's not a thing that we have to fight and push down real hard. I mean, there are moments to do that. I'm not saying we shouldn't forcefully push down our fear. There are times to do that, for sure. Again, it's a mist that evaporates once we realize who we really are, what love really is, the true power. Once we know the true power, the mist evaporates.

Deborah: Mr. Talk, can you stop? Mr. No Ear, can we just take that in once more?

Christian: Yeah, if we could recognize that it's a mist, it's simply trying to help us remember who we are.

Deborah: Why does it make me want to cry?

Christian: Because it's so true.

Deborah: Yeah, when we have true perspective, there can be no fear. Like, when we know the truth, there can be no... there's nothing because it's just seen. It's known. It's felt. Like, when the truth is known, it's just known. There's nothing to fear. And that's one of the reasons why, when we're on the other side choosing to come to do some incredible things here, we know who we really are. We know we are immortal beings. We really are. It's not just in our religious or spiritual thing—it's just what we are. And when we know that, there's nothing to fear. Fear can only happen when we buy into the illusion of the separation and the resultant beliefs and labels that we put on the experience after that illusion has been taken on.

Deborah: Thank you so much for the work that you do.

Christian: Thank you. Thank you for the work you do.

Deborah: Thank you, everybody today who's listening, for being human. I think that's really important to say. Nobody thanks you for being human lately, probably, but it's true. It's a very meaningful walk. Thank you for being here today.

Christian: And thank you for the opportunity. It's beautiful.

Deborah: Thank you so much for listening. We want to keep this conversation going with you, so please subscribe to our podcast and leave a rating and review to make sure you never miss an episode. Remember, climate activist by day, human by night. Send Deborah a DM on Instagram at @deborahsilvermanastrology and visit deborhasilvermanastrology.com. And we're going to leave you like we leave every single episode: make it your mission to change the world.