LET'S TALK ABOUT PRE-BIRTH EXPERIENCES WITH CHRISTIAN SUNDBERG

Hello everyone, I'm Shannon Torrance, and welcome to Magic is Real, a podcast focused on proof of the afterlife, whose mission is to bring hope and inspiration to others and to spread the word that death is only an illusion. If these interviews resonate with you and you want to hear more like them, you can support the podcast by liking, subscribing, and sharing with like-minded friends. Thank you so much, and thank you for being a part of the Magic is Real family. I wish you peace, light, and love always.

Hello, Magic is Real listeners. I am very honored today because my guest, Christian Sundberg, is here, and he's going to share some insights that I think are so interesting, thought-provoking, and different from what we normally do here. You're used to me interviewing near-death experiencers—people who have crossed over to the other side and come back to share what happened when they "died."

Christian is actually the author of a book called A Walk in the Physical. He is a regular family man who did not die. However, he does have what's called pre-birth experiences, which we will talk about. As a child, he had memories of his existence before this life, forgot them, and later, when he was 30 years old, started to meditate and began to recover those memories.

Christian, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you. You have so much to share.

Christian: Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.

Shannon: Yeah, so your story is a little different and a little more difficult to ask questions about off the bat because what we're talking about is really very non-linear. Time is an illusion, and so why don't you explain a little bit about that? I know it's hard to ask you to start here because there is no real start time. You've told this story a million times. Take it away as you interpret it.

Christian: Sure, thank you. Before I get started, I just want to say—and I have to disclaim this every time we try to talk about these topics—that language is vastly insufficient. Our language is based in our world of form. Words are symbols that are based in our context, and who we truly are vastly and deeply transcends this entire context. It transcends duality itself. So there's just no language at all that can possibly touch the depth and the breadth and the realness of these topics.

I just think that's really important to say because I feel very much like every time we even open our mouths, as soon as we speak, we've already ruined it. We're just wrong. So, okay, that being said, to speak to the time question: linear time is a construct. It is a tool. It is specific to this local simulation we might say that we're experiencing right now.

We tend to think of everything in a very linear way because that is how we experience sequence here on Earth. There is a higher sequence that I can't possibly articulate, but there is a sequence of the soul you might say—maybe an evolutionary sequence or something.

So, I do have these pre-birth memories that I'll try to describe briefly. I'll try to be somewhat brief, as you mentioned. I share it many times. I don't want to bore people with the same story. But these memories are both incredibly ancient and also simultaneously right now, alive, active right now. They're not like earthly events that are kind of in the past and limited and defined. These are deeply personal, almost intrinsic to who I am, and both ancient and also right now.

In summary, I remember a long time ago—and I know this is going to sound really strange to some people—I know I'm going out on a limb when I describe this. Like you said, I'm just a normal family guy, and I've been a working professional for 19 years, so I know how this sounds. But I remember before I had ever been physical, coming across a being who had been physical, and I was so deeply inspired by this being because I could feel in him the quality of his nature, his essence, like the substance of what he was.

It was so beautiful and so full of power and joy and freedom and expansiveness and refinement. I just don't know how to describe this, but I was deeply inspired by this being. So I set off to do this, and I had many life experiences since then—again, in linear time—many experiences since then.

The majority of my pre-birth memories are of a time somewhat immediately preceding this life, after I had taken a long break from being physical a number of times. I decided I was taking a very long break, and I remember a guide coming to me and asking me, "Are you ready to go back? Are you ready to go back yet?" and putting him off for a while, and finally saying, "Okay, I'm ready to go back now."

I reviewed with this guide what I can only describe as my state—like who I am, who I have been, and what qualities I had mastered or were a part of me. It's really hard to explain, but maybe you might even say like virtues or something. But what had I done in the past, and what would it be best for me now to work on and to integrate?

It was very obvious the thing that I needed to work on. I don't like the word "work on." It's not like a human task or something, but I really felt this deep fear in me that had bested me in a previous experience. I should say I didn't feel it in that time in a real way because fear itself isn't actually real, but I knew that I had this unevolvingness in a certain direction that was extreme.

In a previous physical experience, this fear had led me to become overcome. I had been very egoic, and I had hurt a lot of other people. So I saw this, and I knew, "Wow, if I could integrate this, it would be amazing. There would be so much growth, so much personal expansion, and expansion of the whole, actually, if I could face and feel and integrate this very, very low vibration that I had engaged in a previous experience."

It was so extreme that I asked, "Is it even possible? Has any being in creation ever done this?" And the God community said to me, "Yes, and you have all the time available to do so. There's no hurry."

I just knew that if it was possible, I would do it. I said, "If it's possible, I will do it," because I knew the depth of what I am and what we are—the completely unbelievably powerful, immortal spirit that we are. I just knew that this was an incredible opportunity, even though it might be very challenging.

So they brought me a lifetime that was perfect for this intention of mine, and I reviewed that life and I accepted it. Then I accepted the veil. Okay, so the veil is just a word, but this is the thing I remember most, and it's at the forefront of my mind every day because I can feel it even now in this life.

I remember being in the state, and then the veil is like a surrender to an energy where your vibration plummets down, down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, so low in such a way that your knowing is cut off, and your connectedness disappears. It's like a racing or a losing of all that you are down into this very, very low vibration, dense, specific vantage point.

I like to describe it like an amp, a sound amplifier that produces a pitch. It's got a knob, and then you turn the knob down. It goes down, and then when you get to the bottom, you turn down some more, and then more, and then down, down, down, down, down, down, down, more. That's what it felt like to come all the way down, down, down, down into this very dense, limited physical experience.

This wasn't for this life. It was an immediately preceding life, and I was in the womb then. I was in the state pre-birth but physical, and within seconds, I was like, "I'm not doing this. This is so low vibration. This is so dark. This is not happening. I am not going to tolerate this for a lifetime. This is ridiculous."

So I summoned my might, my strength, and I fought my way out. I pushed my way back past the veil, and I was successful in doing that. But I became immediately aware that I had killed the fetus. I killed the body that was to be mine, and I had a life review, just like near-death experiences describe.

I became aware of all the people that were affected by my life, even though it was super short. I knew that my fear and my decision to reject the experience caused the mother profound grief. Then I saw, in ripples away from the mother, hundreds of other people—hundreds of other people whose lives were going to be made more difficult because of my fear and how it affected the mother.

So, okay, I had wasted that opportunity, but I still wanted to do this. I still had this intention. So they brought me this life, and I remember reviewing this life in incredible detail. This life was not as perfect as the other one was. The other one was super appropriate for my intention. This one was pretty good. It wasn't perfect, but it was good enough.

I remember reviewing what I can only describe as a vast flowchart of millions and millions of possibilities of how this life might unfold. It was like, metaphorically, if you take a tree and lay it on its side and you start at the trunk and you work your way out to the branches, it was like that.

I reviewed even in terms of numerical ages. I remember reviewing how this life would likely unfold and what it would be like to be me—to be Christian, the human character—what it would be like to have this experience, and what was very likely and unlikely to happen.

I knew, for example, that it was very likely that in my early 20s, I would be traumatized, deeply crushed by an experience, and that that trauma would give me the opportunity to re-engage this very low vibration fear. And that did happen. My body is 41 right now, but when I was 22, I experienced a traumatic event, and I had PTSD for about six or seven years after that.

It was only after really facing and processing that deep trauma and really integrating a lot of that—doing that work and then taking up a long-term meditation practice—that these memories began to return.

But anyway, at the time, I reviewed it, and I was incredibly excited. I knew this was like I was going to be taking this way further in one experiential direction than I'd ever gone before. It's like, metaphorically, if you start in the middle at base camp, and every time you have an experience, you go out a certain distance away from base camp and maybe set a flag or something.

This is just a silly metaphor, but I'm just trying to describe vibrationally. It was like I knew that in this life, I was going to be going really, really far out in one vibrational direction, way past my last flag, so to speak—like I was going to be entering the wilderness, very challenging territory, in a very deep way in one specific direction.

I was so excited at being given the opportunity to do that, and I knew that being given a human life was like the most precious, amazing gift possible. It was like being handed the most beautiful, precious gift in the world, and I was so honored that I was being given the chance to do this and to play this character because there's only so many, and there's so much experience work that goes into the whole simulation—all of our lives here.

So to be given the chance to be a human was so precious. Okay, so I remember then there was a moment to say yes to the life, and I don't remember that moment, but I remember then being in a waiting area, like this area of light, and being ready to go.

Then this guy came to me and grabbed my attention, like, "Go now, like right now, right now is the time," really getting my attention, and I'm like, "Okay, okay, now." So next, I was in this room that I can only describe as like a mechanic shop or a pit stop or something—some kind of mechanics area where these beings that were very mechanical in nature—I like to call them tinkerers—were there.

They did this thing for me where they made the veil fit for me. They made it because it's like organic, it's personal. So they do this thing where they take the energy of the body and the life and the circumstances, and then the soul has very rich, personal, deep qualities, and they do this thing where they make it fit, make it all work.

Then I remember them asking me one last time, "Are you sure? Are you sure you want to do this?" because I knew once I said yes, I was in for the ride. There's no getting off the roller coaster once you press this button.

I said yes, and then once again, I felt my vibration plummet down, down, down, lower, lower, lower, lower, and this time, I just focused on not fighting it. This time, I just was like, "Okay, just don't resist. Just let it happen. Let it do what it will do to me."

I felt my knowing be cut off. My connectedness disappeared, and I felt alone and dark and dense, like arriving to the vacuum of space. It's just metaphorically like where there's no heat, there's no substance, there's no air, there's nothing. It's just emptiness and yet denseness. That's how it felt to arrive to this place in the womb.

Okay, so then I was there for a while. So I made it, and then I was there for a while, and then I said, "You know what? I'm not doing this. This is so low vibration. This is so dark. There is no way I'm going to tolerate this. I am not going to have it."

So once again, I began to summon my might to fight my way out, and as I did that, the most holy moment from my whole human experience came to me. I don't know how to describe this other than saying the Great Spirit of God—the I Am, the Great Source—I don't know what. There's no word, but the Source, the I Am of all, came to me.

It communicated to me telepathically, and it showed me like I expanded back out, and it showed me all that I am. I felt all the stars, all the universe within me. I felt our own sun, Earth, churning with bliss, just like the very act of the sun burning on itself was so like raging bliss.

I felt all of this expansion and freedom, and the Spirit said to me, "This is still what you are. You can never not be this." And it was so powerful and deep in me, and it calmed me. I was like, "Oh man, oh man, if that's what I am, that's wonderful."

I knew that I didn't have to fight. I could let go, so I let go into the simple existence of being in the womb, and I was there for a while. Then I remember the day I was born, and I remember the feeling. There was no intellectual understanding at all. There was just an experience of extreme sensory information—sight, sound, temperature, touching.

I remember looking up at the nurses who were there taking care of me and having so much love for them and wondering, "What is this place? Where am I?" But I had no understanding at all of where I was.

I know that they say that babies can't see, and so I don't understand this, but I definitely saw the nurses, and I have one memory of the image of the room, the layout of the room, the day I was born. Then I have no memory after that at all for a few years, except for just a very sparse week—a couple of memories of being in the crib, but nothing substantive.

But then as I got older, I remember being in a diaper and learning how to walk, and I remember calling upon these pre-birth memories at that time and looking at the flowchart memory as a way to kind of cheat—like, "What's going to happen now? What's going to happen next?"

That ability diminished as I aged. As I got to the age of maybe five or six, I couldn't cheat anymore. I became more and more deeply associated with the identity of being Christian, and I didn't have that memory anymore. I didn't remember any of this, as you mentioned, for my 20s until I was 30 years old when I took up a long-term meditation practice.

I certainly wasn't expecting anything like this. I was just meditating at first because it felt like a relief in meditation, and I was reading the work of the physicist and consciousness explorer Tom Campbell at the time. Tom recommends meditating as a form of investigation—like, just go find out, go see what your awareness is.

So I was doing that, and then after a few months, I had my first non-physical experience and out-of-body experience, and it was so profoundly jarring and shocking to me because it was so real. It was not subtle. It was very paradigm-shaking.

Then within a few months after that—probably a similar time; I don't remember exactly what it was—these memories were just there again. It was like someone had just blown leaves off the ground. It was the most normal thing in the world.

Now, from the perspective I have now, to me, the strange thing is that we don't remember what we are. What we are is much, much greater than the character that we play.

Yeah, so that's a quick summary. I mean, I left out certain elements, and it's really difficult to describe, but for context, hopefully, that'll be helpful.

Shannon: Well, to me, it sounded very clear, and I'm sure it does to most. You're very articulate and eloquent, and I feel like you've really sort of figured out a way to tell it in a linear fashion that makes sense through our paradigm.

One thing that strikes me is that it really feels like what you just shared is sort of like a behind-the-scenes of a near-death experience because people who have NDEs experience a life review often—not always, depending on how deep in their journey they go—but we don't really know what happens after that because they haven't stayed long enough.

I feel like you filled in those blanks very well. You're able to fill in those blanks very well because we all know there's something. We spiritual people know there's something going on. We're like, "Are we aliens? Why though? Why do we have to learn lessons? What's the greater meaning of it all? Where does it even come from?"

Obviously, you don't even have all of those answers, but what you do have is a pretty good glimpse, and it actually makes so much sense based on my own life experience and my spiritual awakening as to why we're here.

As I've gotten older, I start to see the patterns. I know what your thing was—fear. My general fear—there's a specific fear. Okay, yeah, so a specific fear, and then, but you know, I've noticed that the themes of my life—the areas that I need to work on—I'm still working on.

I've gone through 12-step recovery, and it's like I still come up against these same things—not using my voice, not speaking up. It's all voice-related, and I'm just sharing this because I think it's pretty interesting.

I was a kid with a birthmark on her face. Kids called me ugly. I shut down because I had anxiety, so I was selectively mute, didn't speak, had to go through therapy, then became an actor and a singer and a performer, but then just lost my voice again two years ago.

It's just the voice thing keeps coming up, so that's just a small bit of it without getting too much into it because this interview isn't about me, but it is interesting how I start to see, "Oh yeah, not using my voice, being a people pleaser, not feeling lovable without external validation."

Fortunately, I've healed so much of that. I feel like I'm in such a different place where I don't feel that lack of self-love anymore. In fact, it's the opposite. However, I'm like, "Oh, but then these little things come up where you're like, 'I'm still being tested. I'm still having to work it out.'"

As you said, it's not that you don't like to use that term, but yeah, it feels like there is a lot of working out of things, and that's sort of why we keep coming up against the same obstacles.

Christian: Yeah, I want to say there are two things that come to mind that I think are meaningful. So, I've had a lot of people ask, "Well, how do I find out what my purpose is? Why am I here?"

Of course, that's an extremely personal question, and there's not just one action you can sit down and do, but I'll just make at least this one comment that's pertinent to that question.

As you said, the thing that we're here to integrate—I like the word "integrate" because it's really about learning it and knowing it, not learning in an intellectual way. There may be intellect involved, but it's an experiential integration of something, and that thing tends to keep rising up into our experience over and over and over.

If we come with something specific, it's usually lined up pretty well that you will get a chance to engage it. So, one clue is to look at your life, and often it's the weak leg—the thing that's difficult for you—that keeps rising up over and over.

Maybe it's a certain quality of relationship, maybe it's a certain strength or virtue or something that you're struggling to engage, maybe it's a self-perception you really have trouble with that you just can't get over. Whatever it is, I'm just encouraging that it is often the case that if it keeps rising up over and over, pay attention because it may be related to why you've come.

The other thing that what you said reminds me of is one of the qualities that we come to Earth to master—again, these words are very weak—but one of the qualities we come to develop is the quality that Robert Schwartz talks about. I have not read a lot of Robert Schwartz's books, but in the short bit that I did read, he talked about this, and I thought it was really apt.

Robert Schwartz is a gentleman who's written books about pre-birth planning, and there was a term he used in it that I feel is very meaningful, and it's the virtue of self-referencing or the quality of self-referencing.

So, what does that mean? We come from higher systems where our connectedness is known fully. We feel our connectedness all the time with each other and with the whole, and so we draw great strength from each other. We're also all loving, compassionate—our true nature is love and compassion and support.

If there's any weakness or need, it's quite natural for us to go to others and find that strength there. However, on Earth, it can be a very different story. We can't feel each other all the way. We can't even really communicate. We don't sense all of what the other person is experiencing.

So, what happens is we end up feeling an experience that feels very personal and very cut off—like, "I'm just in my little brain, my little body, and you're over there. You're an outside person. I only feel me. I don't feel you."

When we're all acting like that, what can happen is it can force the individual to rely on one's self, on one's own strength, and that is actually a quality. I know that we, of course, love is about selflessness, but I'm focusing in this moment on just this one quality, which I think is very important, and that is the quality of being able to draw strength from within and find one's own place, one's own voice, one's own truth.

Whatever it means, because that does take courage. That is something that can really be done here in a way that cannot be done when there are far less constraints. So, I just thought I'd mention that. I think that's an interesting point.

Shannon: Yeah, and that's sort of why I like to share these stories. I think they bring up some interesting thoughts from you.

One of the questions I also have is—I know this is hard to explain—when you went into meditation, did this sort of come up all at once, or was it slowly over time that you started to remember things?

Christian: I'd say the majority of it was all at once, and then as I was aware of that, naturally, I started focusing on it because that's really interesting.

Once I began to focus on it and as I continued to meditate, I found other things attached to it all over the place. So, other memories opened up. For instance, I became aware of just a couple of brief snippets of past physical experiences I've had—not a lot, but they're all tied together.

As an example, I'm aware that I was once a woman who had given birth and was pregnant a second time, and I remember being afraid of having to give birth a second time because of the pain of child labor. That fear of that pain—that fear of being unable to escape pain—was the same energy that I'm facing in this life, though under a different circumstance.

So, I'm aware of that connection. It's not different, and it was me. You know, you think when you have other lives, those are other people. No, it's you. You have an experience of doing this thing or being this thing or entertaining this form for a while. Same exact me, but the same fear from that experience to this experience.

Shannon: That's right. And when I know—I'm sorry, no, I was just going to say—well, I want you to continue, but I'll have another question. Go ahead.

Christian: I was just going to say that there are times when I reach a point in the memory where I'm very curious about something, and I try to probe, and I get this "No, okay, that's not like that. That's no. There's no need to go there."

I respect that. I know it's easy for the ego to get a hold of these ideas. I know that it is best for me to not push where I'm not supposed to push. I just allow what is there, and that's good. I think it might interfere with my own journey if I push too much.

But with what I do remember, it's been very helpful for me because now when these pains arise, when the fear rises, I'm inspired by my own intention. I know what I'm here to do, so I can very actively use the opportunity rather than be overcome by it.

Shannon: Right, that's yeah. And that's the hardest part of being here, which is not easy. It's the hardest part of being a person. I know I was just thinking this week, "Okay, this particular thing keeps popping up, and I know I need to take contrary action in some way."

I know that ultimately, this is why I'm here, so why do I keep wanting to go back to this thing? I guess I'm like, "That's not serving me. I know that, and it's not helping me evolve, but man, the ego gets involved, and you're like, 'But I want that thing.'"

So, I get it, but I also wanted to know what you think about past life regression if you have any thoughts about it.

Christian: I don't have many thoughts about it. I once entertained the idea of becoming a past life regressionist.

Of course, when we're here and we're veiled, it's an extremely complex energetic process. How do I describe this? The veil is effective, and each individual is so unique.

I don't think it's as simple as doing some physical action, some process, and then getting that information. Now, I think it is very much possible to get that information because that

I don't think it's as simple as you know, doing some physical action, some process, and then getting that information. I think it is very much possible to get that information because that's what we are. It's there. It's just that the way that the local human personality uses information, there needs to be a healthy element of skepticism, I feel, in that because often it's our imagination or it's our ego. It takes a great deal of discernment and familiarity with the deeper aspects of the self, the subtle, what appear to be subtle at first.

They're actually not subtle at all when you actually go there, get there. But the subtler aspects of itself, it can be very easy to misinterpret those. So, I think it's a wonderful process overall, and I think if someone's interested, that'd be great because even if you may get past life information or maybe if you don't, maybe you're still getting useful information that's not about a past life, but it might still help you if you're open to it.

That's actually a really good way to put it. I've tried past life regression meditations and with other people, and just always felt like, besides the fact that half the time I fell asleep, the other half was, I guess I'll not make something up, but I'm like, I don't know if I'm not making something up just to have something to say. But at the same time, as a medium, I know that that's part of what I do is when you're reading someone, it feels like you're making it up, but it's actually divinely inspired.

Not all of it, it's deciding what's your thought versus what's coming from actual source, which is, like you said, it is subtle and yet it's not so subtle, which is really interesting. But yeah, I just wondered what you thought of that because I think it's such an imperfect science, I guess, and when I say science, I mean that loosely.

So, I feel this is one of the reasons that meditation is such a very helpful habit. I won't even call it an action, but a way to utilize time and intention because I feel that it is almost impossible to differentiate higher information, we'll call it, from the spiritual information from outside ourselves within a spiritual context from the local if one is not familiar with one's own thoughts. What I mean is, you need to have a real, you need to feel and know your own relationships, your own thoughts. If you're lost and thinking all the time, that's a very difficult environment from which to receive that higher information.

I feel that it takes a lot of humility and a lot of willingness to actually go see exactly what your own thinking is, go find what your own awareness is beneath thought, and become familiar with what thinking is, what it feels like. You know, that's a thought, that's a thought, that's a thought. As you gain that familiarity with your own thinking, which by comparison is extremely dense, it can feel quick in the human mind. You know, it can feel like you're having a hundred thoughts a second if you've been thinking a lot, but even those thoughts are very forceful and dense, whereas the deeper parts of us, if we're in a state of clarity and peace, the deeper information tends to come lightning fast, all at once, and as a knowing, not as a bunch of new thoughts that are like your thoughts.

I don't know how else to describe it. You described it better than that, but it's very personal too. Like, I'm not trying to qualify for anyone else because every single person's walk is unique. I would never try to qualify that for someone else. I'm just trying to describe in my own case, I know that meditation in a consistent way is very important because otherwise, I won't have the clarity of mind to have that sense. I've had some interaction with non-physical friends.

Think of it this way, like they're at a super high vibration, and we're kind of really low, so there needs to be a meeting kind of in the middle somewhere where there's a vibrational connection. They need to come down, we need to be at a higher vibration, and that doesn't mean forcing yourself to be in a good mood and happy. It means you need to actually work through a lot of fear, you need to actually be fully present and feel the power of life that you are within yourself so that you are in that open, accepting place, and that is a place that is conducive to vibrationally having that interaction.

I'm so glad you said that. That was going to be my next question: how can you raise your vibration to reconnect with that part of yourself and everything around you? I've also heard you speak a lot about, I know that you don't claim to know the answers or to say this is exactly the way that it works, but I found it really interesting because I think so many people think that heaven is a place and hell is a place. I understand them to be more of a state of consciousness but also not just heaven, but all these other dimensions of reality.

The idea that time, there is no time, I mean, it's not a linear thing, it's happening all at once. I just basically want you to riff on this. It's not a specific question, but it's so hard to even formulate a question, and I know that you can't formulate a definitive answer, but there is something that I believe that I'd love to hear you talk about, which is the idea that there are many different parallel realities, dimensions, and that they're all actually right here.

So, let me jump back to your comment about heaven as a place and hell. First of all, Earth can be experienced in a heavenly or hellish way depending on our own vibration. What that means is, our true nature, this is super important, our true nature is already total love, freedom, joy, power, creativity, total love.

That is the constant. It cannot be truly lost. It is the bedrock upon which all experience is built. This is such an important message, and it's real. I'm not just making this up because it sounds nice. The foundation of all existence is breathtaking love and freedom of being. That's what we really are, but for the purposes of the expansion of consciousness and evolution, we choose to take sojourns into contrast, like here. This reality is just very high contrast potentially. What I mean is, the context itself is high definition, high state of separation, which is a very alien state. Being human is like that.

But while we're here, it's not that that state of high constraint is bad. It just has a very high opportunity to provoke fear, which to provoke our yet unevolvingness, especially as we buy into perceptions that are not in alignment with the truth of who we are. So, if we buy into a perception of I am unworthy of love, I am not free, I have no power, those are some of the biggest ones on Earth that everyone is terrified of deep down.

When we buy into those perceptions about ourselves and about the world, we take a vibrational step further away in the skin, buying into the perception because when you buy into it, now you are the being who feels unworthy of love and who feels that they have no power. When you are that being that is not in alignment with the enduring truth, and when I say you are the being, I don't mean you're fundamentally the being, I mean you're having an experience of being that being.

So, I'm defining in that way to start before I speak to the reality systems question because here on Earth, we can have heavenly or hellish experiences depending on our own thoughts, our own beliefs, our own perceptions about ourselves and the world, depending on how we utilize the physical experience. Earth is high contrast, can be hellish, can be heavenly. But meanwhile, are there other reality systems? Yes, many, many, very real systems, many of which are thought responsive.

So, if you go to a thought responsive system and you have a lot of fear and a lot of negative belief, let's say as a human personality, you learned a belief in hell, and then you go to a thought responsive reality and you're terrified, you may create a hellish reality immediately, instantaneously, that is very real, very tangible because of your own fear.

Simultaneously, in a thought responsive system, we can give rise to very beautiful things, and that is all. That is even just out here in the vibrational area where there's still great limits. There are thought responsive reality systems that are still of quite some, every reality system has rules. You know, in our reality, we got physics, we got all those properties of how matter behaves. That's part of our reality system. There are other reality systems with different rules. Some of them are still relatively far further out vibrationally or maybe someplace in between, whereas some are naturally much closer to, again, this is not duality. It's not even fundamental.

So, this whole thing is, this metaphor only goes so far, but for our thinking minds, there are many reality systems that are very close comparatively to the source that are places of unspeakable bliss and unspeakable beauty.

We can take even the things that we love and enjoy on Earth and give them even greater expression in these systems that have much less limitation. So, there are physical reality systems that are either physical in the way we experience now or physical in another way or even not or even completely different than what we can even imagine.

It doesn't have to even be a reality where you see an environment like we have here. We think reality is made of environments, but that's just because we consciousness are buying into a perception of an environment right now. There are many other ways we can experience reality as well. I'm just highlighting though that the bedrock of all of that, even the hellish experiences, is total love.

How can total love be the bedrock of even those hellish experiences? Because consciousness, spirit, is so bold and creative in its ambition to expand and refine in love that it will even go this far, like on Earth, to integrate experience and to expand. We will even do this. We're unconditionally loved so much that we are given the option to choose to have an experience where we do not consciously remember the unconditional love, and that hurts, but we chose to do it because it has so much potential.

So, I just want to highlight that, and again, these things are really difficult to speak to. There are real other systems. If you would like, put it this way, if you want to spend a thousand years in a green field with those you love, you may if you choose, but also we constantly seek to evolve and grow. So, eventually, you may choose, you know what, I'd like something a little more challenging now. It's all our choice.

So, right now, while we're here, I know we get lost in these stories of powerlessness and fear. I know, but this moment is the opportunity. This day, this place, this body, this social circumstance, this illness, whatever, is the opportunity. You are an immortal being, and you cannot die.

You will not die, but how you use this experience, the love that you bring into this experience or the fear that you integrate and overcome, not conquer, but the fear that you heal in this experience, you get to keep all of that, all the love, all the preciousness of experience, the taste of pumpkin pie, you get to keep that. So, it's all an opportunity. It's just very high contrast. So, the question is today, how will you use this opportunity today?

It's beautiful. It's a wonderful truth. We've just lost sight of it because we've come so deep into the experience of separation and so deep into availing that our species, our collective consciousness, is just at a relatively young place right now. We're still early in our evolution. We're just starting to wake up to the larger spiritual context in which we exist, the very real context, and that's okay.

That's wonderful. When you say that, because I love the way you said that, it was so inspiring and motivating. I would like to know a couple of things. One is, based on the fact that I love that you said that we live in a thought reflective reality, and I'm really sort of going down the rabbit hole with that lately, what do you think of the concept of manifestation as it pertains to that idea? Is manifestation possible?

Manifestation happens. It's just that in our reality system, it's very slow by comparison. Well, I mean, it tends to be very slow. It does not have to be very slow. Spirit can do whatever it wants. So, to us, things that seem miraculous may actually be no big deal. But in general, generally speaking, our reality system is very dense. Like, basically, it can feel impossible to, for instance, send this mug to Jupiter with my mind. It is not happening because that's not how the rules work here.

But our intention, our deepest intention, this is the thing. When people talk about manifestation, they sometimes focus on the thought forms only, that is the thinking we're having, but really, the power, the driving force, is the deeper intention, the deepest why, our deepest real focused want, our real why we're thinking the thought.

So, for instance, we might say, I want a new car. I want a new car. Did I manifest a new car yet? But really, what you may be vibrationally saying is, I feel powerless because I have no car. I feel powerless because I have no power, no car. I'm just saying that you can't trick the universe with who you really are. Your intention is your intention, and that, by the way, as a side tangent, I think is one of the reasons that facing and processing our own fear is so important and empowering. It's actually one of the reasons that evolved beings who are so richly loving and have conquered fear are powerful because they are able to wield an intention that is pure.

Let's put it this way, love has the true power. Fear only has power in the extremely limited local sense. Like, what I mean is, somebody might walk in my front door with a gun right now and shoot me if they so choose. They could do that, and my body would die. That is the extent of their power. That's it. Now, that may sound like a lot. It's not. It's nothing. It's fine. The true power is love. So, even so, then what we take that back to our conversation about vibrationally in a manifestation sense, loving intention, pure intention, has so much power, whereas an intention that's just kind of like a fear muttering or weak thoughts has very little force behind it.

So, that's one of the reasons why there's been studies like prayer can help people because if you're genuine and you really want to help the other, others are part of you, and you're gifting them that energy of pushing with your intention, so to speak, wishing them the best in a real, genuine, selfless way, that has an effect. Intention has an effect. So, we're all manifesting all the time, but when we have fear, as Tom Campbell says, actually, he says in this reality, you get what you fear.

What he means by that is the thing that you're resisting, that you because, like I said, you can't trick what you're really down there. If what you're really down there's trying to avoid something, unfortunately, or actually not unfortunately, it's only unfortunate to the human ego, okay, fortunately, we have the opportunity even to then face the things we fear here as they arise.

So, that was kind of a long-winded response, but yes, I loved the response. I actually had another question, but then I forgot it, so I jumped to that one. But no, that was me. I know that there was another question I had, and I'm sure I'll kick myself when I edit this and watch back and say, why didn't I ask that? But I think I did want to touch on what you had been speaking about about our essence being pure love, light. There is no way to destroy that.

That's what it is. So, how, why is it that we come here? I know we have the veil, and I'm sure the veil, I've always assumed the veil is there because if we knew it all, we wouldn't be challenged to figure it out without this higher knowing. So, it kind of helps us because if we are grounded in this reality, then we do have to sort of take everything seriously. If we were born knowing it was just an illusion, we'd be like, I don't know, whatever, I don't care.

So, why, and I know that people have free will, and I know that people are reacting out of fear, and it's just so striking to me how many people choose the fear-based reaction: violence, hate, discrimination, all of these, war. It's just why.

I don't even really know what my question is. It's just something that's so profound to me, and part of that question involves or part of that musing involves why do people, some people, do you think, because you're not the only one, and there are other people that have these memories, and then there are people who are chosen to have near-death experiences so that they can become aware and be reminded of their true essence. What do you think about the whole concept of why is it that some people just never will see that and why some do, and also just why we make such horrible, cruel decisions and hurt one another so much?

Well, the reason, very broadly speaking, that we make such cruel decisions and hurt each other so much is because we have so much fear. Where fear is great, ego is great, and our ego is great. All terrible things can happen because in the quest to justify the self, which is grabbing false power, the ego will say, well, I look, you have value now because you believe this or you have value now because you can do this.

Maybe you can hurt the person next to you so you feel better for a few seconds because look, I see proof of my own power, so now I feel better or something like that. That's very shallow. It's not true satisfaction. The ego doesn't have true power, but the reason the ego does that is because it's just a portion of us that's trying to fix the problem.

The problem is this state where we have not come to terms with yet, the state of feeling separate, alone, not having power. We're in a world where bodies die. We see death. We're afraid of that being the end potentially because we don't remember. So, that's a huge fear-provoking perception because it's not in alignment with the truth as I mentioned. So, to boil it all down very simply, we have a lot of fear, so we hurt each other. Love is then the answer.

What love means is accepting each other, supporting each other, having compassion for each other, no matter what, no matter the form, no matter the belief system, no matter the skin color, no matter the sex, no matter the political party, no matter the race, no matter human versus animal. We love, we accept, we support, we act in alignment with the connectedness of our nature.

If you think of it this way, we're like all part of one body, the body of the ocean, the source. We're like drops in the ocean. To act in alignment with that truth is love, whereas fear is smaller, back to the self, and screw the rest of the body. I'll just do what I can for myself. Now, here we are, we're like a fear orgy happening for sure. So, that's happening. Does that mean that we're really pretty terrible beings? Well, it's not really that. It's that we have entered a situation, a condition, a context of very extreme constraints, and we have a very long way to go to integrate those constraints, to come to terms with them all. That is, we all have a lot of fear.

If you had a very evolved being, called an ascended master in new age terminology, a very evolved being, come to Earth and incarnate as separate, they will not respond with the same fear even in difficult conditions because they have integrated this, and that no longer, there is no need to fear, and they experientially know it, so they're able to express that love and not be overcome by fear, whereas those of us who have a long way to go, I certainly myself included, have a lot of fear. So, we need to face and process that fear. That is a step in the direction of the solution: facing and processing our own fear and trying to bring love in small ways into even our own lives. That is the way forward.

We tend to focus on the surface on all the politics and all the systems and all the conditions and all the objects. Where's this object today? Can I move this object over here? Look who's all the money. That's very unimportant relatively speaking compared to our inner experience and how we use the physical experience, whether we're bringing love-based or fear-based intent into our experience. I remember that's fantastic, and I remembered my two questions.

That was fantastic because it led me into this. People, I have this discussion all the time because I know a lot of people say, oh, I believe that they're evil souls, and they're not evil souls, and my belief is that no soul is evil. It's not possible, but people say, well, what about Hitler? And my explanation is always, he was a sick, damaged human being with a brain that had problems and a spiritual malady who was somehow, whether it's through indoctrination, mental illness, trauma, people do horrible, horrible things out of fear.

So, yeah, but I don't personally believe they're evil at the soul level, which people don't like to hear. But what I also want to interject really, yes, please, the reason so when people don't like to hear that, what part of the self doesn't like to hear that other people aren't evil? Oh, right, it's the ego.

Yeah, because it's judgment. I want justice. I want that person to suffer. But the truth is, we are all totally unconditionally loved and healed, and if there's a part of us that does not want unconditional love and healing for another, that's ego. Okay, so but I'll let you continue. I kind of interject. I just think that's, I love that. I guess I'll, okay, one other comment, sorry, please, no, that's why this if it stimulates something great. Yeah, I know. Okay, so Hitler is a good example. I think the Hitler question comes up a lot. Whoever is asking that question, do you not have fear in your own life? Right? If the answer is, okay, and if you do, have you not ever hurt someone else even in a small way, maybe even inadvertently? If you have, is this that it's the same?

I know there's a difference in scope, yes, a difference in pain inflicted, a difference in how many life trajectories were burned to the ground through Hitler in Hitler's case. I'm not making light of that scope at all, but fear is fear.

Our own, like, there's not a huge difference between those with a lot of experience pressing and less fear expressing in that sense, right? There is a difference in evolution, there is a difference in evolution maybe between one being and another, but I think it's important to not do the ego trick of saying, well, I'm a good person, and they're an evil person. Right? The okay, so I guess I'll just leave it at that. I just think this is an important topic because we thrive on judgment.

Perfect, unconditional love transcends and understands all of the judgment. Now, are we, even though we're unconditionally loved, does that mean that there's no reason not to make bad choices? No, absolutely not, because we are 100% accountable for every single thought, every single action, every single intention, every lifting of a finger is a part of us. What I mean is, when you move on and you see your impact, the impact of who you are, you can see very clearly, oh, wow, I have so much imperfection, I have so much fear, and it's a part of you. You are responsible for, you could say, but that whole system, call it karmic responsibility, even that whole system of energetic cause and effect exists within unconditional love.

The unconditional love gives rise to a system of experiential growth and evolution for the sake of love, and love is the true power. It can't be any other way. So, that means even Hitler deserves and is even unconditional love, right? Which is so kind. I know that sounds so controversial, but I know exactly what you mean, and that's what's so hard for people here to understand because it's so far out of their paradigm because he's the worst of the worst of evildoers in that we know of. So, one of their small comments, so like, if you're, so I'm a parent, yes, I have two young children. So, one day I was watching my children, I don't remember exactly the circumstance, but I remember my one child doing something slightly hurtful to the other child out of an early learned ego response, and it was mild, but it hurt.

Now, do I love my child any less because that child did something to the other child? No, right? No, because I know that they're just befuddled by what the behavior, the conditioning, the learning, the who I am as a human person.

Now, if that's true of me as a human parent with extreme limitations and fears myself, what then of the great source that understands all things, knows all things, knows all parts of itself, knows the preciousness of every soul, and is itself endless eons of love? How much more than can that love understand Hitler? Right? Or you? Right? Just yeah, you see what I mean? That's why it's so vastly different from our existence here, and I know exactly what you mean. It's the soul of the person that's always pure. It's not the person.

Yeah, and I think that's such an issue. We get twisted. We get twisted for a while in a temporary sense. I'm not saying there's no such thing as twisted individuals, but I'm saying that all of us are twisted to some degree in the sense that we are wrapped into fear over fear. Fear is a pain. Fear is painful for ourselves and for others, and we all do it to varying degrees, and that is a non-native thing. The fear itself is non-native. It only occurs when we're in an experience that is not in alignment with the truth of who we are. It only occurs in the illusion of separation and the illusion of powerlessness.

Yeah, but that's one of the amazing things about coming here. Wow, you mean when I'm there, I don't know I have power. When I'm there, I don't know I'm unconditionally loved. When I'm there, I can, what really? Here we are. What will we do with it? Can we shine that true loving nature into this context too, even in a world where people can be killed, and or Hitler's can kill millions of people? Can we bring love in even a small way? When it's over, the play is over. It's okay. Nothing truly was damaged. Nothing truly was lost. It was a valuable experience. It was like going to the movies or something. You know, wow, that was an intense movie. That was a really intense movie.

Yeah, and it's so real here that it's hard to imagine when you're in that other dimension that it is just sort of an illusion here. It's the worst thing in the world, and so because it's our world, this is our little, you know, this is our world. Yeah, and on that note, I wanted to sort of end by addressing what you said earlier that we're waking up because I've heard this a lot, and I don't know if I could have done this podcast 20 years ago and gotten the support that I've gotten or said, hey, I'm a medium, and had people, there are people that are like, okay, that's interesting, and they don't believe in it, and that's fine, but people now know what a medium is.

People now know what spirituality is sort of all about, and there are so many people like us talking about this stuff now that it just seems so timely, COVID, the whole presidential election, Afghanistan, all of these big things are happening at a time when we're also waking up. We're suffering as a species, but we're also spiritually evolving. Can you speak to that?

So, part of what I'll just, there's one thing that comes to mind that's of course because the real comment to that involves everything that's happening, but just one thing I'll say is, as we evolve as a collective, it means that all the old fear-based thought patterns that we have entertained so deeply need to come back up to be faced and processed and integrated and healed.

We don't heal by burying it away and never looking at it again. Healing takes place with open eyes, true knowing, and so as we do that as individuals, think of us as individuals as a part of like the pond of the collective consciousness or something, as we each engage fear and as we each wake up, we're slowly changing the temperature of the water.

Yeah, and as the temperature of the water increases, it provokes that which is not in alignment with it. Like, put it this way, the temperature of the water tends to draw us all towards the mean of the temperature. So, like, this reminds me of a comment I once worked with the near-death experiencer Christian Andres, and he's a beautiful man, and I had this really high experience that I just, I was so connected, I knew, but I had mentioned him, but I felt like I was being drawn back down.

He said, well, that's the mean vibration of this place. That's the average vibration of course. You can't, you're a part of it, so you're kind of bound vibrationally. So, just we're not actually bound, okay? We're never actually truly bound, but for the purposes of this conversation, it's like being bound into that pond.

So, as the vibration increases and awareness increases, all the ugly, and there's a lot of it, holy cow, our human history has got all sorts of nastiness in it, so much hatred, so much violence, so much prejudice. So, as we raise that, that stuff has to come up to be processed and faced and healed, both individually and as a collective, and I feel like some of the political environment in the United States lately is kind of an example of that. That's just my own personal feeling.

Yeah, but that's okay. That's a good process. It may appear on the surface that there is more friction. There will be more friction when you drive that change, when you drive the processing of such deep, deep conditioning. I mean, we live in a world where for thousands of years, as an example, we have killed and eaten the bodies of other creatures. I mean, just think about that. That's the nature of this world that we're in. It's pretty horrific.

Yeah, so we have that like we have a deeply ingrained level of fear-based thought patterns, and so as the consciousness increases, we must process those, and so the friction on the surface, don't become overwhelmed by it or discouraged. So, I'm energetically sensitive, and I can feel the vibration of groups, and when I go into public spaces lately, I feel a higher vibration than five or ten years ago, slightly. You know, it's noticeable even though on the surface there might be a lot of controversy, and I think that's kind of indicative of what's happening across the board.

We actually are growing. It's just that the play might get pretty hectic, and it might remain hectic for a while. I mean, we could even have great periods of local destruction, but again, this is just the props in the play. What matters is what we do with it, what's in us, and each individual can do that. We're all a part of the solution. It's not a situation of hopelessness at all.

Each individual only needs to face and meet their own experience with open eyes, open heart, face your own fear, bring love in your own life, smile to the person next to you, tell someone they're awesome, accept someone next time they trigger your ego, just do that, and we will be helping the temperature of the water increase. That's great. I love that. That's a great place for us to end because I did want to ask what can we do to help raise that overall collective vibration, and I do want to know, do you think that there's ever going to be a time in our existence as human beings where it's possible to have total peace, where so many people will be quote-unquote awakened that it's possible?

I do think so. I do think it's likely actually, not may perhaps not certain, but very likely in the long run. That's a nice thought to hold on to. Thank you so much for being here, Christian, and for sharing your many insights. I'm really looking forward to reading your book, and I'm going to have a link below about where people can find the book. Tell us what else, anything else you'd like to share before we wrap up. Yeah, first of all, I just want to share that the book is free. I'm not, it's not about money. If you go to my website, a walk in the physical dot com, and go to the book page, the third link down is a link to the Google Books PDF of the book, so it's there for everybody.

That's wonderful. Yeah, I mean, I think the most important thing we can wrap up with is, I say this every time, but sometimes we need to hear a message many times for it to really sink in. Whoever you are listening today, you're not human. You're you. You are the experiencer who's knowing being human, and your true nature is love and joy and peace and freedom. That is what you are. Fear does not, you don't need to fear. You don't need to worry about the things that you fear, and you don't need to take the story of your life so seriously. We can use this play, we can use this experience however we like. We can use it in joy and in fun.

So, go do something fun today. Some joy. It's okay to do that, and I just think that reminder in the context of what we really are, you know, there's a lot of power in that. The truth in what we are is very good and powerful, and so if we can feel that even a little bit, I really think that can go a long way.

What a way to start the day. It's morning, and I just really appreciate that so much, and I know everyone else will too. Thank you so much for continuing to spread the word that we are not human, that we are pure love and light, and I love the message of just encouraging people to embody that light and walk away from fear. It's not easy, but it is possible, and I love that optimistic perspective that there is hope for us as humanity to heal these wounds and continue to do better.

One, I'll just say when I think to that last comment, I recently had a conversation with a gentleman for a different video, and he said, the house always wins, and I loved that so much. It means that the house is spirit, God, whatever term you want to use, goodness always wins in the end. Put it that way. Every experience is used for the refinement of love and joy ultimately because love enjoys what we are.

So, I'm agreeing with what your statement is, and I just want to say that it is not only possible, it is the natural direction. Evolution towards love and joy is the natural direction. Beautiful. Thanks again, Christian. I'm so appreciative of your sharing your insight and your unique light with us as well. Thank you. Thank you very much. Have a good day. You too.