Episode 12 - Christian Sundberg

Hello, and welcome to "When Religion Unravels." I'm Bruce, along with April and Sherry here. Before we get started, just take a moment to remind people while we're here. It's all about people whose journeys take them away from religion, like many of us. In our childhood, we were devoted to a religion, and at one point in our lives, that religion didn't fit our needs anymore, so we found our way out. This show is not about bashing religion in any way. It's about finding your spiritual path and adjusting once you leave the tight controls of a religion.

With that, I don't know if you met those of you tuned in last week. We were talking briefly about Sherry working on cutting the energetic ties with her old religion. So, I'm going to turn it over to April and Sherry to kind of talk about what's happening in April and Jerick, and maybe give you a quick little update before we bring Christian on.

Cool. Yeah, so Friday, we had the three of us meet up because, in this process, which we are going to explain to the audience in more depth next week, the actual process, Bruce has kindly volunteered to be my energetic guide through this. So, he walked me through the opening meditation to start the process, and since then, I have had emotions come up and some energetic happenings.

I've had the dreams, which are really interesting, which April will get into, I believe, next week, right April? You're going to touch on those, but I did want to let everyone know that I will post a more comprehensive update on the Facebook page, and we are going to save the really meaty, juicy stuff for next week on our show. I think we're going to devote the show to having a discussion so people really can get walked through the process. What do you guys think? Sounds good? Yeah, okay, we'll do it then.

Good. And now, April's going to introduce our guest. I almost don't even want to introduce him because I just want to bring him out so bad. I'm like, let's just skip that. So, today's guest is Christian Sundberg. He has a fascinating story. He's able to remember his experience in the womb. He has memories of planning his life before he went into the womb. He remembers why he was motivated to incarnate in the first place. He remembers his life before he came to Earth, and that is so fascinating to me. He also grew up in a religion, so we'll explore just a teeny tiny bit, but I really want him to share his stories and his wisdom. He's so wise and wonderful. Let's bring him out.

Hi, Christian. Welcome.

Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Okay, so you said that you were willing to share your pre-birth experience story. Do you want to just jump into that?

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so first of all, before I begin to attempt to speak to it, I just need to make the disclaimer that these kinds of things that we're trying to talk about are so vastly beyond language. There are no words that can be used to properly articulate the nature of who we truly are and the higher realms. It's just not possible because words are symbols. They're a form of our world, and who we are fully is transcendent. It's just beyond anything in this universe that we're in. So, I just have to make that disclaimer because every time I even open my mouth, it's just wrong. It just can't be right.

So, okay, so when I was a small child, I had memory of existing before I had come to Earth, and I remember choosing to come. This is before the age of five or six. Definitely by the age of six, I had forgotten it, but up until the age of five or six, it was like daily referenced memory for me for a while. I used to kind of like cheat a little bit to see what I was gonna expect in my day-to-day life because I had seen ahead before I had incarnated what I could expect, and I was like drawing on that memory constantly. It got harder as I got older. I wasn't allowed to cheat anymore as I got older, as I got more and more focused on the physical content.

But anyway, so then when I grew up, I had no memory of that after the age of six, and it wasn't until around the age of 30—right now, my body is 40 years old—that I began a meditation practice, and I certainly wasn't expecting anything. But after meditating for some number of months, I began to have non-physical experiences, and I also began to have this memory returned to me. When it did, it was so normal and natural, and it was just like, how did I ever forget that? It's like the most normal, natural, and close-to-me thing, and it's not like an earthly memory that gets fuzzy. It's nothing like that. It was so personal and so real and so vivid, and I'm like, how did I ever forget that? And I know why I forgot. It's the nature of the veils, the nature of being here and being physical.

So then, I didn't share the memory at all for like maybe seven or eight years. It was only about two or two and a half years ago that I felt that the timing was finally okay to share this. I just didn't feel like it was the right time. So here we are. The story is extremely personal, but I feel like it's important that we speak to each other and that we remind each other because I'm here to tell you, we are not human. We are far more than this human experience. Who you are listening today, you are you. You're the you that feels like you to you, and that you is having the experience of being this person, this human. And you know, we're much more, much more than that.

So, okay, so now to back it way up, and again, I can't really—time is really strange in this too because these experiences, you have a sequence, but they also feel to me like they're kind of happening all at once. So, I can't really identify exactly like, oh, there's this and less than this, but there is a sequence too. So, I'll start at the beginning as far as I remember, and that is a long, long, long time ago before I was ever physical at all, before I'd ever had any physical experiences. I had come across as being who had been physical, and when I came across him, I was so in awe of and inspired by the quality of his being, that was nature, who he was. It's really hard to describe this, but it's like the quality of who he was was so vibrant and full of joy and life.

I remember even asking him like, wow, I feel this joy because we share each other's emotions. We share feelings there, and I remember feeling it from him and asking him, wow, do you really experience what I feel? Do you feel, you know? And he shared yes, and I said, how did you possibly become this? And he shared with me a few things, but one of the main things he had shared with me is a physical experience he had gone through that was extremely difficult for him.

He had had some kind of chronic health condition, some kind of painful, long-term physical ailment that he had to deal with, and the way that he met it allowed a refinement of his being. That's the only way I could put it. He was so evolved and refined, and because of it, he was just so full of so much joy and awareness and power.

And I said, I want to do that. I want to do that. I'm going to do that. I was so fired up and just so inspired, and I remember him communicating, not blowing me off, but kind of like, yeah, that's what they all say. And I was persistent. I was like, no, I'm gonna do that. And I remember him communicating, it's hard in a way you've never known. And I was like, I don't care what it is. I'll do anything to do that, to be this. So, he said, okay, go talk to your guides.

So, I remember, okay, so then there's a big break. I remember that I live, I had many experiences, and I remember finding this being later and sharing with him, see, I'm going through this process like I said I would, and he was encouraging.

And so then, okay, so then there's a big break, and the majority of what I remember is somewhat immediately preceding this life, where okay, so I had some experiences, and I'd taken a very long break at this point, and I remember being in a state. It was kind of like a waiting state, but not waiting. Waiting's not the right word. I was active in other ways, and I remember this guy coming to me over and over and over again, like, are you ready to go back yet? Are you ready to go back yet? Just kind of pinging me every so often and just reminding me of my own intention.

And eventually, I said, okay, I'm ready. I'm ready to go back. And I remember meeting with this guy and reviewing what I can only describe as like my state, like who I was, who I had been, and when I did that, it was obvious the thing that I needed to—I don't like the words "work on," but work on—the thing I needed to experience to be in order to grow and evolve past what had been a very low vibrational fear that I'd experienced in a previous experience.

And in that previous experience, I had succumbed to a fear vibration that was very low, and it caused me to be a very twisted and harmful person in that experience, and I had caused a great deal of harm to other people. And after that experience, I was kind of—I don't like the word "stunt," but I was surprised at how deep this fear was in myself. So, when I reviewed this with him, it was obvious that I needed to go and integrate this fear and evolve through the sphere.

And I knew that if I could do so, the opportunity for expansion would be unspeakably beautiful and powerful. But I also knew that it was going to be ridiculously hard. So, I remember asking the guide like, well, has it ever been done in all of creation? Has any other being ever done something this extreme in this kind of way? And I was told yes, and you have all time. I knew I had all time. Like, time was given to you to do so, like all time. And I knew that well, if it's possible within all that is to do it, then I will do it. I just had great confidence that I will do it because I knew that by doing it, I would be not only expanding personally, but I would be serving the whole. I would be performing a powerful, valuable service, a creative service, by integrating this experience and doing this.

Okay, so they brought me a life. So, I set that intention, and then they brought me a life that was perfect for this intention, and I reviewed this life, and I accepted this life. And I remember accepting the veil, which is just a word that means like the—so when we, at least for me, when I came to incarnate, when it came to be physical, I had—so it's like this huge dive where all the knowing that you have—because we come from a place of total knowing where all knowledge is available to us, and everything is connected, and we know our connection with all things, and we also know our oneness with all things—so the veil for me was a feeling of plummeting and vibration down low, low, low, so low, even lower, low, low, keep going lower, turn down lower, now lower, lower, lower.

And in that process, losing my awareness, my knowledge, like my connection with all the knowing that existed, and also suddenly feeling very separate and very alone and very dense and very like in the dark. And just that experience alone was so exciting because I have this feeling that every life has its own vibrational place, like that you that is like—I don't know how to describe it, but it's like a vibrational destination. And when I reached the destination for this life, this lowness of vibration was so extreme that I was like, this is ridiculous. This is so low. This is so dark. What am I doing? I am not doing this.

So, I decided to summon my strength and fight my way out. I was like, nope, I'm changing my mind. I'm not doing this. And I fought my way out, and when I did it successfully, because now I suddenly was back on the other side, but I had a life review because I had inadvertently—now I know it's inadvertent, at the time my exit was intentional—but I had killed the fetus. I killed the body that was to be mine. And so, in this life review, I saw that my decision to do that, my fear, my fear response to that sensation and that vibration, my fear caused me to basically heap difficulty on the shoulders of the poor mother who would have been my mother.

And I saw that not only she was affected, but hundreds of other people that would have a more difficult time because of how the mother had been affected by me. And I mean, I had all these great intentions going in, like I had really good intentions, and so I couldn't believe that I had done that. So, I knew I still wanted to meet this fear, but I knew I would have to try again.

So, I spent some time in between this previous experience I just described and my current life now practicing accepting the veil and surrendering to it basically so that I wouldn't do the same thing again that I had done the first time. And after a while, they brought me this life. Okay, so now this life was not as optimal as that one would have been. It was still quite good, but it wasn't perfect. But it was good. It was good enough. It was good and had a lot of opportunity in it.

And so, I reviewed what I can only describe as a vast flowchart of millions and millions of possibilities all instantaneously. I reviewed all of the probabilities of what was likely to happen or could happen in this life, like not from an event standpoint, but like how it would feel to be it and what it would be like to be the person going through this and what was likely, what was not likely. And I knew that the life had a certain energetic trajectory that was very extreme in one direction, and I knew that there was a trauma likely in my 20s that would crush me and cause me to be traumatized and that would allow me to re-experience this fear and to engage this fear.

And I was very excited, very, very excited to do that. I mean, from this side, being here, being Christian, having gone through this trauma that did happen in my 20s, of course, it's a—I have a different perspective, but at that time, my perspective was so much excitement. And I knew that the opportunity of this was absolutely incredible, and I knew that the opportunity to be given, like just being given the opportunity to be human, was the most incredible gift. It was just like being given the most precious gift in the universe, like, here, you can, this can be you. And I was like, oh my goodness, because there's only so many opportunities, there's only so many character slots or something like so many people, and I was given a chance, and it was just, I was so honored and so excited.

Okay, so then, they okay, so then I was with these beings immediately before this incarnation where that I can only describe as technicians or like tinkerers, beings who are like technical in nature, and somehow they do this thing where they like apply the veil of the—they apply that life to you like I don't know how to describe—they do this thing that like makes everything fit. And then I remember being with them and like being—I could describe it as a chamber, but like a place where I was ready to do the dive, and they asked me one last time, are you sure? Are you ready? Because once you say yes, you're in. Once you say yes, you're right, you're strapped in, you're in for the ride.

And I said yes, and then I remember the veil coming over me once again, and my vibration plummeting lower and lower and lower once again, and my knowing being cut off, and suddenly being alone and in the dark and having no contact, no like intellectual context. There was just me, and I don't know how to describe it, and I was holding on and holding on, holding on because I knew that I just had to basically not fight the veil, and it would work. So, I was just like, just don't fight, let the life take hold. And so, I did that, and eventually, I remember sending like a little ping back to the technicians like, did it take? And then sending one message back, yes, like it worked, and being excited about that.

Okay, so I was there for a while in the womb, and then eventually I said, you know what, I'm not doing this. I'm not doing this. This is so ridiculous. This is so dark. This is so constraining. I am not doing this. So, and this moment's very personal, but take your time. It's just emotional because it's what we really are. I remember the spirit of God coming to me and sharing like showing me the universe and the churning of the stars and the love, and I knew, and it said to me, this is still what you are. You can never not be this.

I feel sad because I miss home so bad. I just want to miss that state of being. I'm not saying anything against this experience. It's wonderful. It's a great opportunity, and I love being here, but it's in the ways that I do. But anyway, at that moment, it was so calming to know, oh, because it was like I was resisting my like who I had become. It was like I lost everything I was. That's what it felt like.

The veil felt like losing everything that I was, and it was like God coming and saying no, you're still that. So, it calmed me, and I kind of settled down into the simple existence of being in the womb. I remember being there for a while, and then I remember the day that I was born, and I remember the shock of being born. I remember being like just basically like a sensory overload, like light and sound and touching and temperature.

But I had no context. You know, I had no understanding at all. I didn't know what was happening. All I knew that something was happening. There's all these lights, and there's cold, and there's touching, and then oh my gosh, like something really extreme is happening, and there's these beings. I knew that like these people that I could see the faces, I knew they were beings.

I didn't know what, and I was like, who are these beings that are taking care of me? And I have one visual memory of that day. I remember the room. I remember the layout where the bed was and where the window was and where the heating grate was, where the doctor was standing. I remember just being in awe and being like super curious, like super intensely curious, like what is this place? Where am I? And that was it.

For a couple of years, I have some other just sporadic weak memories from being a baby. I remember being in the crib, and I remember wearing a diaper. But then as I got older, I used to draw upon these memories, and I remember used to remember thinking like everybody must know that we're just visiting, and I assumed certain things that were true in my in the higher states were true here. Like for example, I mentioned this in the other video, but I remember expecting that we could feel each other's emotions here because that's how it is in other systems. You can just share feelings. This is very normal. It's very natural to do that here. The separation is pretty extreme.

Well, I remember being in a diaper, and my parents had this neighbor friend over to the house, and I remember this record being on the record player. My father was playing this music, and I remember telling the neighbor friend, watch me dance, and shaking my little tush in my diaper at the couch and feeling super funky, and the woman just like walked away unimpressed, and it stunned me because I was like, she can't feel what I'm feeling. Like, what place is this that we can't feel each other's emotions? What is going on? It was so like I was shocked. I feel like I'm still kind of dealing with that actually. My body's 40 years old, but I feel like every day I'm just like, what's going on with this place? Like, what's going on on Earth?

But anyway, so that's a very quick summary. I feel like sometimes I have moments when I feel curiosity like, oh, what about like such and such, and there's often times the veil is still very firmly in place over me. Thank—I'm very thankful for that actually because I feel like this memory is only made it's a bit—it's not only and introduces a great challenge because the contrast is so extreme to be here and have some awareness of where we are.

So, sometimes I'm curious, and I kind of add, and I get this like, no, you don't need to know that. You don't need to see that. That's fine, and I'm okay with that because I've really come to terms with basically just allowing what is here. I mean, in my 20s, after this traumatic experience, I was traumatized. I had post-traumatic stress disorder for years, went through years of counseling, and I to a very large part have healed that. I no longer have any issue picturing the event or beforehand that caused me the trauma. I'm very open with it because I've come to face the fear, and I'm doing it.

And I think that's actually in part potentially why some of the memories come because—and actually, well, it didn't come back to me until after I had done the majority of this healing—but it does inspire me because I remember my own intention. I remember like how I can help at least in this one way to hopefully succeed in what I've come—what a story.

Yeah, we had one question that came in from Camille just after, do you have any sense of what the time frame was between the life which you jumped out of to this life? No, I have no sense at all. I don't even know if it was human, to be honest. I assume it was, but I don't know that. Time is very different on that side. Linear time is a construction, so I can't possibly speak to when that might have been.

What I found really interesting, Christian, if we backtracked a bit to when you were speaking to that being that you just thought was amazing, like their essence and their energy was just amazing to you, and they explained to you it's because they had been through some lifetimes where they had to go through healing, yeah, which refined—I don't know if I'm saying this correctly—but really refined who they were, and I love that part of your story because to me, when you loop it back to the intent of this show and our audience is a lot of people who have been through experiences related to religion and so on in their hardships, and they can get stuck in that victim mentality.

And I love the lesson here that what we go through and what we heal from is only serving to refine who we really are at our core. Like, that's a beautiful lesson, and I think it's important to say that. I agree 100%, and I think it's important to say that who we really are at our core is already love and peace and joy. The being that we are, you, whoever you are listening, you are a creative, powerful, loved being. That is who you are. You are a part of all. You're a part of God, for lack of a better word, and it's very strange that we live in a place where not only don't we remember, but then we work very hard to teach each other otherwise.

You know, we have fear that we're taught. Like, I'm not—so I was raised Lutheran, and I guess I was lucky because I wasn't as drilled into my head as it probably could have been, but I took it very seriously, and I definitely saw the world through a religious lens for probably 20 years. I was very active in the church. In fact, I was very close to going to seminary and becoming a pastor, and so I came from that, and it took an awful lot of bravery and humility, at least I felt that way, when I eventually discovered that a lot of what I believed was not as accurate as it could be next to the love, like the freedom that is the truth. You know, the truth is so freeing and so full of love and joy. Anything less is doing a disservice to who we really are.

So, there's a bit of a tangent, but I just want to say that because we often try to frame who we are within a religious context, and it's very difficult to do that. Yeah, it is difficult. The other part of your story that I think was really, really valuable for people listening is you described in great detail how your choices for this lifetime and the other lifetimes that you chose were set up in such a way to fulfill your path and your intention for being here. And the reason I find that such a great point is because anything we've gone through, especially in the context of religion, we chose this because we wanted to learn certain things.

And again, like I'm always such a proponent of getting out of the victim mentality instead of this happened to me, we chose this, you know, and are we going to honor the path that we chose? Yes, we choose the context that we come into, yes, and that context is known in great detail, at least it was for me, and that context for many people includes a religious context. Yeah, and so you, so okay, so if you think of consciousness as being first and fundamental, okay, what we are is consciousness, spirit, yes, so then that, so then how do you deal with as a free will because you know we have and we always have the ability to choose within our context.

We have a—what Tom Campbell calls a decision space. You know, we have a free will awareness that free will we get to use within a context. So, as consciousness coming into a context of religion, so here now you have a context where you are taught a certain belief system. So, just like everything else in life, how do you deal with that? What do you do with that belief system that now you have stepped into, and there is actually a profound opportunity because if you are taught, for instance, you are sinful and you are really screwed if you don't believe the right thing and do the right thing, okay, you're super screwed, not just a little screwed, you're going to hell, it's bad.

Okay, so you're so if you're taught that framework, how do you deal with that? What would that be like? Well, well here we are, you know, experiencing exactly what that is. Yeah, to be that, and it's not easy to make the decision to step—I'm not speaking against religion in the slightest because there's a great—there is a—the spirit works through all forms, including religious forms. There is no context that spirit doesn't work through in one way or another. But also, then if you're in a religious context where you have been taught certain ideas that might be victim ideas or fear-based ideas, can you make the choice to step past that? Like, wow, like, what? How hard is that? It's hard. It's very hard.

Like, I have so much respect for you guys and for everyone who is able to take that personal ownership and make that step because I was a part of that too. It's not easy. It's really, really not easy because when it feels like when the answers are all handed to you in some way, that's easier. You know, it's not easy to say, wow, I really need to change and grow and take personal ownership. Personal ownership is hard, you know, and that so, but we have the opportunity to do that here.

So, anyway, to speak to your original point, yes, we do choose our context, absolutely, even difficult context. I know that's so hard for the human ego. It is, you know, we don't like to think, I would not, I would never sign up for this. The thing is, the soul is so free and so powerful and so good and like just so powerful and good and free and full of love and immortality that the opportunity to know the extremes of duality offer extreme opportunities, and we are so bold as to even come and do—can we come even here and be loving? Can we come even here and love each other and help each other and work past our own fears? Can we?

It's a good point, and here we are, and guess what, this moment, this day is the opportunity. Like, you can't affect what feels like the past. It's actually all now, but it feels like the past. You can't affect that right now, but now all the power is right now, and so today is the day. Like, you don't have to move mountains. You just have to meet your experience the best you can with openness, love, personal ownership, be there for the person next to you, meet your own fears, do what you can in this moment. The small stuff is the big stuff. That's what we come to do. That is success, and there's so much power involved with that, and it's like this is the opportunity we've all come so far.

You know, we've all lived a long life. Not one person listening today hasn't gone through incredible suffering of some kind. I mean, everybody here deals with crazy hardships in whatever form, some more extreme than others, but everybody has their really tough times. But here we are today, and I mean, you're just here to say this. This is the opportunity.

This moment, this day, what you do with this, what you do with your walk from if it be religion or stepping past abuse, finding your power after you've been taught that you're powerless, finding the love that you are worthy of and that you are when you've been taught you're not worthy of love, you are free to do that.

I feel like the words you just said were so profound, especially when you said the small stuff is the big stuff. Do you think that you were—I'm gonna say gifted with this knowledge of remembering, but you've also pointed out that we all can do it, but first, do you think that you are gifted with that so that you can give these words of encouragement and maybe reach a small number of people, a large number of people, and help them on their way? Like, why do you think that you have this, and then I guess the secondary question is, why do you have this and we don't, and how can we?

Okay, so first of all, I'm in no way special at all, and I don't know if I have some kind of—I don't know if my pre-birth memory did not include anything about being, you know, being spreading this information. I don't know. I do remember, however, asking to have a small bit of memory this time. I remember asking, is it okay if I just don't forget? I don't want to forget everything this time. Like, I remember being kind of like feisty about it like, I don't want to forget every single thing. I want to have just a tiny, tiny, tiny little bit of memory. Can I do that? And they said yes, but it will make the journey much more difficult.

And I knew that having even that greater difficulty was greater contrast, which was greater opportunity for growth. Like, I knew even that would allow this to be even more growth could be possible for me. Now, I feel I do feel called to speak to people, not because I have some knowledge. In fact, I don't have any special thing. Like, everything I'm talking, so every one of us is what we are, and actually, I don't mean this in a negative way, but it seems almost a little comical to me that such powerful spiritual people don't—when they when we don't remember, like it's kind of like a big joke. I don't mean it in a negative way, but it's something, it's a little funny that we've all forgotten, but that is the nature of Earth. This is the place where you come, you forget everything that you are.

You go super, super, super, super deep into being human, being biological, having to eat and do all that stuff, but who you really are is always, always spirit, always consciousness. You're always you, and just because you're veiled, that doesn't make you any less you ultimately. And so, I'm simply honored to take the risk of saying that. I say the risk because I know I put myself out there. You know, this is not mainstream awareness stuff we're talking about here, but I think it is very important that we remind each other because we've all made some kind of similar choice, and we all are immortal spirits, every one of us.

Well, I love the reminder, and I have two philosophical questions, and I can also hear myself echo, so I hope that goes away. But Bruce, you had some questions that you were going to ask on behalf of some of our listeners. Yeah, I got a previous question and just talked. The question was asking to talk a little bit about prayer and in a post-religious life, what role does prayer play? Yeah, I still pray every day. I'll put it that way. I don't feel—okay, so consciousness is what is real. What's happening is consciousness, and what does it do? It intends. It makes choices. That's like the fundamental thing that's happening in this reality system and everywhere else. There's awareness. There's spirit, consciousness itself, and you're engaging a context, and you're making choices.

And the fundamental movement of spirit is that we use the word intent, so it's like why are you making—like what is behind making your choices? Like, what are you why are you making the choices you're making? What is your actual intention? That intention is super important and powerful. It's an active ingredient. It's like the active movement of what is being this moving. And so, why do I say that in context of prayer? Because prayer is a setting of intention. It is setting your intention back toward source, towards God, toward the divine, or whatever form you use to do that, and intending whatever you're intending, whether it be a loving intention for another person or a thankful intention, whatever, and that intention is powerful.

So, whether you put the word prayer on it or not is not the active ingredient. The active ingredient is your consciousness focusing and intending to connect with who you really are and with God. I still pray every day. I often speak out loud when I pray, and other times when I've been meditating, I feel no need for words, and I simply am a part of that which is, and it is beautiful, and that itself is kind of like prayer. It doesn't need a new statement, but I'll also allow myself to be if I'm physically oriented today. You know, if I feel very physical and I'm wrapped up in the physical context of the play that we're in, that's okay. I will pray out loud, and I do that commonly. It does have effect and power commensurate to the intention that is being wielded.

The other thing is you talk a lot about meditation. Yeah, and when you typically meditate, are you trying to go into a nothingness state, or how do you meditate? Is this curious? Yeah, it's funny because you would think that you could just like say, oh, this is meditation, but there's not really any good words for that either because okay, so the human personality likes to think in form. We like to think in things and objects and actions, so we like to know, okay, meditation, what action is that? Well, I can give you the action that I start with, that ultimately it's not about an action. It's ultimately what it is. It's a movement of consciousness back to itself without having to be caught up in form, which means thoughts.

So, how I typically start meditating is personally, I will imagine a shape in my mind like a square or a triangle, and I will simply draw my awareness along the shape and keep my attention there, my whole body's attention as focused as I can, and if thoughts come, that's okay. As soon as I realize I'm thinking, I go back, and if you do that commonly every day and you allow yourself to fully experience—you have to be fully present with the experience. It's not about performing an action in your mind so much as it is a movement of intention, like I said, and if you do that enough, then I like the metaphor of it's like putting a stick in the river.

Or I don't know if you if you were like when I was a kid, I used to play in the pools with my friends, and we would make a whirlpool in a pool, and the water would get moving, and then there'd be always water momentum. Thinking is like that. So, we think all day long every day. I'm this person. I gotta do this. I gotta pay these bills. I'm like, gosh, what's going wrong? My this person doesn't like me. Who am I? And these thoughts just are constantly arriving, you know, and then we don't even realize that we actually set them into motion by buying into the importance of these various things. So, the thoughts are actually arriving to service. We set that momentum in motion.

And so, meditation is like taking time to completely allow yourself to focus on one neutral thing and not focus on those many thoughts, and you don't slow down the thought yourself. It's just that the thought momentum slows on its own because it's like hitting the stick. You know, it's just a great—it's very gradual, but like all these spiritual topics, it's not a quick fix. We live in a quick-fix society. Spirit doesn't do quick fixes. We do rich, deep, and dirty. You know, we do everything we can. So, meditation is like that, and so it's very helpful to not judge yourself. Just set aside 40 minutes a day and then just do this for like half a year really before you even judge at all is it helpful. Just allow yourself to do it because what happens is when you do this, you're basically using your intention to give yourself permission to not focus on all these thoughts.

And eventually, the thought momentum slows, and eventually, not too soon, but eventually, you can drop the object of focus, and you can just experience exactly what is, what you're calling what your living awareness of the present moment, what that awareness is. You just experience it, and larger parts of yourself rise up on their own. That's how I'd experience it. I don't—I can't go get that, and then when it rises up, it's like profound peace and joy, and then as soon as it happens, the ego's like, oh, I gotta go grab that. That was great. How do I get that back? That's not how it works. You can't go grab it. It's because it arises because it's what you already are when you're not wrapped up in the forms that are so stimulating.

Wow, every time you talk, I've got like a hundred things going off in my head about things we can't talk about here, but I would love to delve in. Like, you are such a deep well of knowledge and wisdom, and we really thank you. I appreciate you saying that. I really feel very much a fool and a weak student of life honestly. I'm in the muck. So, I don't know what that makes the rest of us. I appreciate your time, but actually, it's not me because there's no me. Like, there's not really a Christian. There's my awareness knowing this stuff.

So, there's one question that we always like to ask our guests, and that is if you were going to give any advice to people who are going through the emotional turmoil of leaving or thinking of leaving or unraveling religion, what would your advice be to them? I think that the most important thing I could possibly say is that you're loved. Whoever you are, you are completely and utterly loved and accepted. You are accepted the way you are right now, like with all the dirty, all the whatever. Like, you think God doesn't know? I mean, you think all that is doesn't see and doesn't know you? No, it's all known. So, you are accepted as you are, and you are loved.

It's beautiful, and so if that's true, why can you not allow yourself to know that and feel yourself? It is true. It's just that we've been so conditioned. This is the place of conditioning. You know, in the religious context, it's a conditioning, but it's also one that I mean like all form. We buy into it once we bind to it. We have a hard time finding our way out. That's the nature of being human. Yep, you probably had some questions.

Yeah, you mentioned when you were before you incarnated that you were still in spirit, and you realized that there was this one fear that it was obvious to you that you hadn't fully integrated it yet. Did that unintegrated fear that you're confronting right now in this life, did it have an effect on you in your spirit form? Like, did you even notice it, or was it so far away that you're like, oh yeah, I'll clean that mess up later?

That's a very interesting question to try to speak about with language. I can simply say that okay, so from that side, you could be you. So, you can see who you are. So, even as you are who you are, you also simultaneously are completely and totally aware of the unconditional love that is the truth and the freedom of your nature that is the truth. So, it's okay that you are not perfect. I don't even like to use that word because we're also perfect in a different way. It's okay that you are the being that you are, and you know it. You just—it's almost so it's a matter of fact, but all wisdom is also a part of it too because the wisdom is also like you also have to learn through experience why it's even important. You know, I mean like you—I don't know, it's hard to explain. The wisdom carries over.

The quality of being carries over because that quality, it's just that quality. So, that the person that you are is then but within a much greater context where you know your connection, and you have access to all knowledge, but you're still you. You see, you're still you, and but you can see who have I been and who am I? In this case, I have this deep fear energy that had bested me, and I was like, wow, like the word karma comes up, and I think karma's misused a lot, but it is karma basically because I had this fear energy that had caused me through me and because of this fear energy, I had caused harm to others. I was responsible for that. No, not was, I am responsible for that now, even though I don't remember that life very well. I remember dying in that life. I don't remember anything else about that life. I'm responsible for that now because that's me.

So, it's like, you know, you want from that perspective, you want to even out and expand and grow in all the ways that you can refine towards the love that is native to what we are. Just don't know how to describe. Words are so paltry. I don't know if that speaks to your question. It does. It's very interesting, and it makes me wish I could feel the feelings that you're feeling that you're trying to explain because I'm like, it's in there. It's in there. It's the wisdom. You know, we all know the feelings. We all know the freedom and the joy of being.

Okay, so another question is that you mentioned that when you abandoned ship on the fetus that was going to be the perfect life, you said you could see how much pain and difficulty you had put on that mother and how much more difficult the lives of the people close to her became because of her life being difficult. Now, we come here because it is a difficult experience. So, how do you—I just want to interrupt really quick. I wouldn't say we come here because it's a difficult experience. We come here because the constraints are high. There's a difference. The constraints being high often leads to a difficult experience or is experienced as difficult, but the spirit does not necessarily—nothing is required to be painful or difficult. It's just that the constraints are so extreme.

Anyway, what are you gonna say? That's a good correction. I just wondered why making—I guess I'm trying to figure out the question now—like, how did making someone's life more difficult feel like? How is that bad? I guess I'm not saying that. I had so much respect and love for her, for all the players in the game, and I knew that I'd only made their journey harder. Okay, so from that perspective, the players in the game are like superheroes, and actually, there's a great near-death experience I loved by a woman named Amy Call. She said something similar. She said that the non-physical friends see us who are human as like the superheroes because we're willing to engage this extreme experience of high contrast, high duality, high density, high veil, not knowing who we really are. Like, holy cow, separation. That's what we got going on here.

And so, I had so much respect for them, and I only wanted the best for them. So, I couldn't believe that I had made their task harder, and they're another task, but their experience harder, and that was not in alignment with what I wanted for them because I love them. We all love each other. I think we really are.

Now, you also have mentioned before that there have been experiences that you've had where you were able to—because you're so aware, like I don't know, this is me pontificating maybe—but because you're so aware of the reasons that you came here now at this point, I feel like you're able to pick up on the energy of other people and sometimes see into the gifts of their state of being while they're here. Do you feel like expanding upon that at all? Yeah, I sometimes do feel that. It depends on where my focus is. If I've been meditating commonly and if I have more non-physical focus, it's quite common for me to experience the energy of other people and to see more of that than like their physical face.

When I'm more physically focused, like if I work for two weeks straight and don't have a chance to meditate or something, it's much less so because I've been getting deeper into the physical by staying focused on it. So, I do have some sense, but I try to be very—I see I'm very skeptical too. Like, I know I'm sharing all this really out-there stuff, but I'm very careful about making drawing conclusions, but I do get information sometimes. I sense certain things about people that I very much relate to. I mean, I've met people who I feel are in my soul tribe, you know, my group of souls that I just know really, really well, and I can't help but talk to them. You know, so I do have experiences like that.

I've also had some non-physical experiences. So, I occasionally have body experiences, and I've had several times where I've had experiences with someone I know who's alive while my body was asleep in these cases, and then I've been able to confirm with them the next day that we had that interaction. It's like a fun thing I like to try to do. I've had four times I've been able to do that so far, and in those experiences, I have a huge amount of energetic sharing of what's really going on, who we really are. Words are so pathetic. Our normal method of communication is sharing huge volumes of information that's all emotional and full of all perspective, and it's like not misinterpretable like words are so.

Anyway, so I always say I only have a tiniest fragment of that sometimes here. I liked the story that you shared of the woman when you were in the gaming store and the sense of her that you experienced. Yeah, the short version of that story is simply that I was in a gaming store playing a game, and an old woman walked in, and I sensed her energy, and I looked over at her, and my jaw just dropped because I felt this incredible power and this goodness in this woman. I was like, I couldn't even play my game for a few seconds because I just wanted to go over to this old lady and be like, do you know who you are? That'd be so super weird. I'm gonna be that weird guy occasionally. That occasionally happens.

Very cool. Are we setting up for time, Bruce? We're about done. Yeah, it's one of those things where you don't want him and let him know. I feel like you know, Christian, I'm not going to stalk you or anything, but I really want to sequester you in a room for like a week. I'll feed you, but everything we want to know is within ourselves, within yourself. You don't need it. You don't need an external, but I'd be happy to as another wilderness adventure or at least to talk, but I just want to encourage everybody that what you seek is within you. You are this. There's a great echo totally quote that I love, and it basically says a true spiritual teacher has nothing to hand you, no new information, no new idea. All they could do is help clear the way so that you can know who you already are.

Yeah, so I think that's kind of what we are doing for each other even by loving someone. Actually, you're kind of already doing that even though it's not like intellectual. It's like just loving someone, smiling at somebody is like giving them a little permission to feel like who they are. Anyway, so that's like a form of preaching in a sense. Yeah, I think that—go ahead. Oh, I said if you want to learn more about Christian and some of his blogs that he does online, it's called "A Walk in the Physical dot com," and I posted it in the chat here so everybody can have a copy of that because it's just fascinating to go read those things and just to learn about where his mind is and some of the insights that he has. And so, I would encourage everybody that's watching to go do that because I hear rumors that you may be writing a book too. Is that true? Yeah, I'm basically turning the blog into a book.

My intention—this is like super frustrating to try to do this—bold intention to try to take the blog and put it within a framework that's super short, like 10 pages or less of it, what's going on, you know, with like physical reality, what are we doing here, and then I want to have like a FAQ section just so I can try to take a shot at some of the more commonly asked questions. I mean, it feels like stumbling through the dark every time I try to write because it's just there's no words for any of this, but yes, I'm working on it. We'll see. When I'm eventually done, I'm going to make it publicly available. So, nice. Hopefully, you know, when that exists.

Beautiful. Well, I think you were the most anticipated guest we've ever had on the show from the three of us. We were just busting out of our skins wanting to interview you, and we're very humbled that—yeah, I love doing this, and I feel like this group, like I said to you before, is super important. This is super important, this context of helping people in their journey of stepping past if it's a religious context or whatever other context it is. Very important and very powerful stuff.

I'll just say that the real change—okay, so we like to think of the change on Earth is like the physical changes are what we care what we want to see. You know, we want to see new governments, we want to see better laws, we want to see the money and all that. You know, we want that. Okay, that stuff all is like last. What's first is consciousness, your consciousness and mine and everybody listening, and what's happening within it. So, the journey that you're going through in your own mind and in your own heart is the real playing field for change.

When you face your own fear and grow past it, when you decide to love yourself even when something is telling you otherwise, you decide to love the person next to you, when you decide that you're going to face your own fear and feel your feelings, when you decide that you're willing to do all that, and then Tom Campbell's words, to improve your quality of intent, you know, to try to issue an intent that is of love and not fear, as everyone does that, that is the active change in the world. Don't ever feel like you're powerless. Everyone here is super ridiculously powerful. You just—they're having an experience of being one human out of a few billion of them, and it seems like you're not powerful. Well, you are powerful, and our consciousness is all connected to each other.

So, when a group like this comes together, it helps even one person to awaken and know the truth of the freedom and love of their own being. That is powerful stuff. It's like a light going on in the sea of consciousness that gives permission to everybody else to face their crap and wake up too, and that's how the world slowly heals. It's when we heal, when we heal, when we grow up, the world eventually because when we're loving, we bring love to the world. You know, the loving context stuff happens as we grow towards love.

Beautifully said. Thank you, Christian. I want to thank you for being on the show today. It's been an honor to have you on the channel, and I'm honored to be here. Thank you. I know I speak from all of us that it's just—you're an amazing soul, and you feel since the first time I heard you talk, I felt connected to the soul in some ways. Thank you, brother. We're all connected at the soul. We're all connected. Anyway, thank you, and we'll say goodbye there, and thank you.